A Few Queries

[TheLegendOfBerti]

Hi,

I'm new here but have been an "armchair" fan of the Tigers growing up, I've been to a couple of Sale/Leicester games at Edgeley Park but that's it. I watch Tigers on TV every time they're on but won't pass myself off as a proper fan cos I'm not a Welford Road regular, which is why I'm writing this thread.

From what I've seen French clubs are snapping up a lot of our nation's talent, do they not have a salary cap? If not, why do we have one when it obviously disadvantages us in the Heineken Cup(bar the fact we had a stupidly hard group after being finalists last year, is there no such thing as seeding?). What is the point of a European Cup when surely in future it will be dominated by wealthy French clubs?

Secondly is the 6 Nations. Well, we seem to have quite a few players missing and we lost to Northampton last week, on a 6 Nations weekend. It's quite unfair that we lose players mid-season, you don't see this is football so why should it be the same in Rugby? The same goes for Autumn internationals. However the fact we still beat London Irish comfortably, who gave us a great game at Twickenham last year in the final, is really promising. This year despite Sarries South African employment scheme we're still at the top, says it all.

This brings me onto my next point. Fixture congestion. Last year didn't we have to play the semis of the Heineken Cup and the Premiership and then immediately the 2 finals back to back? Hardly a fair schedule when Leinster had a meaningless Magners League game the week before. So the reward for being successful and have quality players is the fact that we have a hectic schedule and aren't allowed to have our quality players for a number of games, why is this allowed?

I watched yesterday and was impressed with our first half performance, and I suppose we didn't have to go all guns blazing in the 2nd half too, a good result too, this is our main trophy now to go and win, dissappointing not to be in the Heineken Cup but we had a hard group and you can't win all the time.

Here's hoping to a good end to the season.

[Bill W (2)]

1. Only PRL (England) has a salary cap. Although the French are introducing one (significantly higher than Englands)

2. England (PRL) have an agreement with RFU where in exchange for money they guarantee release of "Elite" players. De facto the Irish, Welsh and Scottish Regions do the same for their Unions. These arrangements are not cross union.

3. Money. Games = income.

[dontlookdown]

2. Also players would struggle to maintain fitness if they were forced to play an extra 10 or so games a year for their country on top of the regular club season

[Darc Tiger]

Injustice is the norm. You get used to it as a Tigers fan.

[kingol22]

the salary cap is designed to keep clubs from getting into financial difficulty and so far it has done this.

[tigerburnie]

Welcome Berti,you don't have to be a welford road regular,but you should try to visit at least once.I now live too far away and only catch the Tigers live when they venture into the frozen north on the odd occassion.
The key thing is you support the right club,just wear your shirt/scarf or whatever with pride.

[Kinoulton]

Salary cap.

Regretably, football is ahead of us.

Going into administration attracts horrendous punishment. Hence, unless your club is run by a twit(e.g. Portsmouth and possibly ManUre) then you're spending is wise and within reason.

No need for a salary cap.

[me2]

As has already been said, the salary cap is designed to stop clubs getting in to financial difficulties. In that respect it has worked. In Wales, Ireland & Scotland the clubs are bankrolled by the Unions. (We don't want Tigers bankrolled by the RFU do we?)
In France, clubs can currently spend what they like so long as they breakeven at the end of the season. This requires a rich owner to be able to cover the significant debts. (We don't want a rich owner pulling the club's strings do we?)

Therefore the salary cap is the best way we have of keeping us financially sound. Even if there was no cap we wouldn't be ABLE to spend much more than
we currently do as Tigers simply does not have the money. We have been loss-making for the last 2 seasons and probably will be again this year. There is not the kind of money to play with that you probably think there is.
Cap or no cap we can't spend the same kind of money as some French clubs.



The decision to play GP games on international weekends was the decision of the GP clubs (via PRL). It never used to happen but then some clubs claimed that they were suffering from periods without revenue but were still having to pay player salaries.

Therefore the PRL decided to play GP games on international weekends so as to even out the cashflow of the GP clubs.
If they didn't play on international weekends the likelihood is that clubs would instead have to play lots more midweek games at the end of the season & still need to rest players (though admittedly more their own choice) as players can no longer play Sat/Weds/Sat/Weds without risking injury, especially at the tail end of the season.



Fixture congestion is a necessary evil if we are to have 3 competitions & 3 trophies available to win. As Bill says, more games means more income for the clubs. The GP & HC Semis & Finals have to happen at the end of the season by definition. They are the finals!
Leinster don't have a domestic cup to compete in so that freed up a few games & they don't have the League playoffs either but the playoffs are a PRL invention. The English clubs want them as they bring in extra revenue and we need the revenue in order to buy players & build new stadia. A necessary evil again I'm afraid.



All fair questions though & ones that are regularly asked by fans of all English clubs. Unfortunately, the clubs need the money & so the majority of club directors don't want to change how things are.

[Pete]

Regretably, football is ahead of us.
Going into administration attracts horrendous punishment. Hence, unless your club is run by a twit(e.g. Portsmouth and possibly ManUre) then you're spending is wise and within reason.
No need for a salary cap.

I thought there were quite a few football clubs in financial danger at the moment, not just Crystal Palace and Chester.

[Darc Tiger]

Dont the total debts of premiership football clubs outweigh the total debts of the UK or something ridiculous like that?

[drc_007]

I'm not convinced the salary cap is designed to avoid clubs getting into financial difficulty. If it was would you not have the cap as a percentage of revenue (or something similar)?
By having a flat rate for all clubs it seem more likely that it is intended to create a more competitive GP, with in theory all clubs paying a similar squad salary.

The downside is that clubs who have more EPS players are not able to supplement their squad for the times internationals are away. Perhaps EPS players should not be included in the salary cap?

[Tom Tom]

As a matter of interest, the 2009/10 budgets for the French Top 14 clubs are:

Stade Francais €21.0m (up €3.0m from 08/09)
Clermont €18.9m (up €1.9m from 08/09)
Toulouse €17.0m (same as last season)
Toulon €16.5m (up €2.5m from 08/09)
Racing Metro €16.0m (don't know about last season)
Brive €16.0m (up €2.5m from 08/09)
Biarritz €14.0m (up €0.5m from 08/09)
Perpignan €13.0m (up €1.0m from 08/09)
Montpellier €12.8m (up €1.3m from 08/09)
Bayonne €12.0m (up €0.5m from 08/09)
Castres €11.0m (same as last season)
Montauban €10.2m (up €0.7m from 08/09)
Bourgoin €10.0m (up €0.2m from 08/09)
Albi €8.5m (don't know about last season)

Source - frenchrugbyclub.com

Good information and post.
Am I right in thinking that our is £5m?

[drc_007]

I think it is £4M

[drc_007]

As a matter of interest, the 2009/10 budgets for the French Top 14 clubs are:

Stade Francais €21.0m (up €3.0m from 08/09)
Clermont €18.9m (up €1.9m from 08/09)
Toulouse €17.0m (same as last season)
Toulon €16.5m (up €2.5m from 08/09)
Racing Metro €16.0m (don't know about last season)
Brive €16.0m (up €2.5m from 08/09)
Biarritz €14.0m (up €0.5m from 08/09)
Perpignan €13.0m (up €1.0m from 08/09)
Montpellier €12.8m (up €1.3m from 08/09)
Bayonne €12.0m (up €0.5m from 08/09)
Castres €11.0m (same as last season)
Montauban €10.2m (up €0.7m from 08/09)
Bourgoin €10.0m (up €0.2m from 08/09)
Albi €8.5m (don't know about last season)

Source - frenchrugbyclub.com

Is this total budget or just salaries?