Are Guinness Premiership teams being held back by England?

[kuzza]

This might sound a bit provocative but it is a conclusion I'm increasingly drawn towards.

The national team's descent from champions to also rans has, I feel, coincided with GP teams' decline. Our young players haven't developed in the way the Irish, Welsh and French players have. They haven't had the international experience they should have had.

Even allowing for injuries, the likes of Lamb, Geraghty and Tait just haven't blossomed into the players their early days showed us they could be. Instead, they've been messed around by changing national team managers, been left on the bench in favour of players whose best days are behind them and dropped in favour of league players who have not delivered.

Are the GP teams as a whole suffering in the Heineken Cup because our national team have stunted the development of a generation of players who could have been (or might still be given the opportunity?) world class?

[tb1]

To be honest I reckon it is more to do with the fact that for some of the Magners teams, especially the Irish and to a lesser degree the Welsh, that League is a development competition. They aren't afraid there to let the developing players have a few more first team games.

[Richard]

No.
its all to do with money, money money.....and pleasing the fans who want to see their star players playing for their club rather than England.

[Pete]

Perhaps they are being held back mainly by coaching that is too defensive and too negatively conservative. A more positive outlook producing more attacking play, not just throwing the ball sideways and back again for no real purpose, would be more successful in my opinion.

[tigerburnie]

Foreign players seem to do ok in the GP teams,so it's fair to say that the rfu don't really know what to do next and that's permeated into the players.Last year we sent better players to England than we got back after the 6 nations.It has been said on here that players openly say that the coaching they get from England is at odds with what we and everyone else is doing.If England were succesfull,I'd listen,but as they are not I won't.

[xhooker]

This in an issue in many countries

NZ/AUS/Sa and Ireland have central contracts and do use the thier leagues for the benifit of the nationl teams

France and Enagland don't and hence thier best players get bashed on regular basis where a win in the league (at all costs) mentallity thrives,

(in france in particular their league and local rivalries apply more than european progresion or the French team doing well)

Wales fall in between and its rare that the National side is doing well along with the regions.

England have the most Physical league in the world but i don't belive it leads to succesful national set ups where 'Team 'england is moreor at least as important as the club ( mainly due to the money the backers of the other clubs are putting in )

[Bill W (2)]

IMHO the agreement negotiated between PRL and the RFU acts to the detriment of England and the GP teams in terms of playing performance/quality but to the benefit of GP teams financially.

This is largely because Randrew believed (falsely, and there was in fact no evidnece for it) that if he (the RFU) could have an "elite squad" glory would follow.

[Duncan B]

There have been quite a few english finalists in the HEC since 2003, and tons of semi finalists, this year was a bit of an anomaly in my opinion no need to panic

[FBI]

Do you think that the salary cap should be removed so that the English clubs can compete with the French?

[Duncan B]

Not in my opinion because it would create too big a gap between not only top and bottom of the premiership but also make promotion and relegation even more of a bittersweet success for national 1 clubs. I think we would see a few lower half of the table clubs going bankrupt, as (correct me if i am wrong) I think that we and Saints are actually the only two prem clubs which make a profit

[FBI]

It would be more lucrative to replace the less successful clubs like Leeds and Worester with Cardiff, the Ospreys and Llanelli in an Anglo-Welsh league.

[tb1]

Not in my opinion because it would create too big a gap between not only top and bottom of the premiership but also make promotion and relegation even more of a bittersweet success for national 1 clubs. I think we would see a few lower half of the table clubs going bankrupt, as (correct me if i am wrong) I think that we and Saints are actually the only two prem clubs which make a profit

I dont think we did make a profit in the last set of accounts?

[tb1]

It would be more lucrative to replace the less successful clubs like Leeds and Worester with Cardiff, the Ospreys and Llanelli in an Anglo-Welsh league.

I dont see why it would be. Where would these "replaced" teams go? What would happen to the Magners League? Why should a few teams with only marginally higher attendances improve anything?