Disillusioned

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adam789
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Disillusioned

Post by adam789 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:59 pm

I haven't been on here in a good long while. To be honest I have become very disillusioned with the status quo of club rugby in England. I was never a backer of the play-offs in the first place, but this season more than any previous one they have really sucked all the life out of the game for me.

I am a supporter of football as well (this isn't an opportunity to start a debate about how football is so inferior and blah blah blah, please hold your tongue), but I will always be a more loyal rugby fan; however, my support of Premier League football has really drawn for me a stark contrast between the state of the two games. If my football team loses, it is a massive blow in the footing in the title race; if Leicester lose, I'm angry about the loss in an immediate sense - but as concerns the title, I just think 'oh well, it doesn't really take any toll on our title ambitions'. For me, that isn't right. Does anyone else feel the same way? Or has anyone ever entertained such thoughts previously?

This, alongside our horrible early-season injury list and the fact that I have been living abroad this season (Back in England tomorrow :smt023 ), has seen me grow less and less involved in Premiership rugby, and that is a shame for me considering that I have been a big Leicester fan since I was born (not that makes a great deal of sense).

The Heineken Cup still holds interest for me, what with it having the format of a real tournament and all, none of this Mickey Mouse play-off rubbish. How has the mood been on here ahead of our crunch game this weekend. I can see us pulling it off, has that been the general opinion or are we less optimistic than that?

Adam
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by Hull Fan » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:07 pm

I fancy a win Adam this weekend.

I'm not a great fan of the play offs. I would rather the team that fininshes top are champions, then if the PRL & RFU want to make extra cash have some other form of play off for another trophy between the top 4.

Rugby league had something similar in the 80's & 90's i think, this would IMHO be a better situation, keeping most people happy!
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Bill W (2)
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by Bill W (2) » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:12 pm

I too am not a great fan of the play offs.

If we must have them I would have two titles. Champions and Play off winners.

I am more dissillusioned by the demonstrable poor standard of refereeing this season and the total failure of the authorities to do anything about it.

Since, by their own admission, referees and elite referee managers are not familiar with PRL regulations I assume that they are similarily ignorant of the IRB laws of the game.
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Purebob
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by Purebob » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:20 pm

The final at Twickenham last season was probably the worst game of rugby I've ever paid to see, but the most exciting and tense I've ever seen. If the playoffs built that, bring it on !

The competitions, breakdown laws, the RFU old farts and everything else are just fleas on the dog compared to those warriors pulling on the Tigers stripes and giving it all up in the arena.

The premiership doesn't have playoffs, but the financial and therefore skill segregation between teams is a far worse inhibitor to fairness and excitement than any GP oddity IMO.

adam789
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by adam789 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:46 pm

Purebob wrote:The final at Twickenham last season was probably the worst game of rugby I've ever paid to see, but the most exciting and tense I've ever seen. If the playoffs built that, bring it on !
The tension in the game was good, but I think the atmosphere in the stadium was dire, it was where I was sitting at least. Because of the fact that each finalist is entitled to a ticket allowance of about 3 people, the section where we were was just full of people who weren't that interested in the game and spent 80 minutes milling around, going to the bar and chatting.

At Murrayfield the atmosphere was a lot better, but the less said about that day the better. All the Leinster fans we spoke to were most ungracious in defeat and there was about one beer tap for the whole stadium.

The semi vs Blues on the other hand was absolutely incredible.
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kingol22
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by kingol22 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:23 am

for the gp final each finalist should be supplied with 30000 tickets each.

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Re: Disillusioned

Post by POSTIGER » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:33 am

I agree with most of your points Adam, I think the introduction of the playoffs has definitely diluted the quality of game in the regular league season. Admittedly the last few weeks of the season are exciting but the first half of the season is pretty shocking as teams make do with being in touching distance of the playoffs.

The more salient point of course, is that the team who have accumulated the most points should be the champions. It's an absolute joke that the best team in the land don't get rewarded. It is at the point now where there is so little merit in finishing top of pile that teams actively avoid it - the upshot of that is we never really know who the best team actually are as the play-offs don't really reward consistency. Were Tigers really the best team last season?
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by hiraldos » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:37 am

I quite agree - I have never liked the playoff system. I went to one final to see what the fuss was all about and it wasn't up to much. The stadium is full of neutral fans - most of whom half pick a team on the day (and it usually isn't Leicester). I understand the argument that it isn't fair that some teams lose more England players and the playoff sorts out that unfairness but I really think there is a better way to organise a season and get round that problem.

I don't think there are any true finals left in the English game - the way things are organised at present we will never again see a final staium packed with fans from both teams (getting the best seats) and making lots of noise for thier teams. Both the H cup and the premiership sell far too many tickets to neutrals which ruins it for the fans to the final teams.

I think Leicester as a club probably agree with the views on this threat and that's why unlike other seasons they are playing the system. Saving the best team for the H cup and home GP games and being happy with a bonus point on the road in the GP. The plan this season seems to be: develop playes in the LV, finish 4th in the GP (and win the playoff) and win the H cup. Fine but I feel sorry for those that watch away GP games.

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Re: Disillusioned

Post by Jeremy Anderson » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:51 am

We decided several years ago to not go to finals for the reasons already stated above - no atmosphere, very few fans from the teams in the final, expensive and often difficult to sort out transport / accommodation if you wait until you know if your team is there. However we try and do all the qtrs and semis for HC and Premiership and have had some great days out.
I guess we put finals in the same box as England games something to watch at home.
I have no problem with the playoffs but agree there should be a cup and recognition for the team that tops the league such as 'League Winner' but leave English Champions for the winners of the playoffs. Main reason being the loss of England players. I don't want clubs incentivised to not develop English players and to put together a team of imports from somewhere like SA.
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Purebob
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by Purebob » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:04 am

"atmosphere" is subjective of course, but behind the goal at Twickenham was a sea of tigers shirts going ape.

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Re: Disillusioned

Post by drc_007 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:06 am

With the Luncheon Voucher trophy now being played during the internationals it could be argued that the need for the playoffs has diminished. However the playoffs are worth about £7M to the premier league and I think we have to accept they are here to stay.

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Re: Disillusioned

Post by Kinoulton » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:55 am

Someone should promote a champion of champions end of season round-robin tournament between with winners of the French Top 14, the Magners and the GP.

That might mean:

Perpignan v Saracens
Saracens v Leinster
Leinster v Perpignan

The final to be played between 1st and 2nd, with the top team getting home advantage.

The twist being, that the GP representative would be the team that actually finished top of the GP, and not whoever won the play-offs.

I think that the lure of such an elite tournament would have the likes of London Irish, Wasps and Tigers far more determined to try to knock Saracens off their perch, rather than just thinking about 2nd place.
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by TigerCam » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:26 pm

The in-balance between the GP and Magners should be addressed. Leinster rested 16 players last week fielding a 2nd/3rd team for their Magners fixture. Their top players were rested, fit and up-for-it against the Scarlets yesterday - not that I thought the Scarlets would win anyway given their form so far this season - + no Anglo Welsh cup either to bother with. No wonder a GP get knackered by the end of the season as the Tigers have proved for the last few years. Disillusioned, not really but I do think the PLA etc should look at the structure?
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shedhead1
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Re: Disillusioned

Post by shedhead1 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:08 pm

Shedhead 1 here:

Playoffs....? Most have accepted them (inc. me) but one stat is interesting. Based on the fact Gloucester have finished top of the GP three times since 2002/03 season which makes us the most succesful team in the GP in the last 7 seasons but with no GP trophy,to some would appear very unfair (not me)

I hope AA is proving his worth.

Bob

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