Chaps,
I think we are all trying to get our heads around what we are entitled to expect from Tigers at the moment.
It is true to say that the club aims to produce the top side in Europe - quite rightly - and hence it can be frustrating to be told that e.g. a losing bonus point at Sales is a cracking result.
However, we have to accept that we have probably the worst 9/10 combination in the Premiership, which should temper our expectations right down to a top half finish being a decent outcome. It is almost impossible to be consistently competitve when your opponents have markedly superior half backs in every game.
This is not to blame the incumbents i.e. it is not Jeremy's fault that he is 3rd choice fly-half. Having said that, the club do need to think some more about scrum half as Harry (when fit) has been a shadow of the pre 2007 version, while Ben Youngs has not yet come through as the club would have wished (see Simpson at Wasps for comparison!). Hence Grindal replacing Dupuy cannot be considered a step in the right direction.
Tigers fans are generally quite a knowledgable bunch, and it has escaped no one's attention that all is not well with Castro, that Amorisino at that size and appetite for the physical is an extreme long shot, and that considering we have a full time attack coach our strcutured attacks are poor in the extreme (off the cuff desperation as per Ospreys seems to work better than first phase moves).
So, although I do think there is understandably a sense that Cockers needs to "go up a gear", I dont think we can expect too much for the time being, and certainly until 9/10 is sorted one way or the other...
Expectation Management
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Re: Expectation Management
Considering the number of injuries we have, especially in key positions, and the fact that four of our six games in the league have been away from home, our position is as healthy as we could have expected. Sooner or later, our injured players will return and we will start to improve both our results and our performances.
My biggest concern is at No 8. I would like to see Croft have a go there. His pace at the base of the scrum would be an asset and he handles better than Crane.
My biggest concern is at No 8. I would like to see Croft have a go there. His pace at the base of the scrum would be an asset and he handles better than Crane.
Re: Expectation Management
The way Crane is used is not only predictable, it stifles the game, and until our pack learn to keep up with the breaks and give support, we will give away penalties and fail to use our backs.
Saints will crucify us next week - anyone who watched their Munster game will have seen a pack on fire. (sorry about the mixed metaphors!)
We are bereft of tactical nouse - and I don't think Cockers has the all round experience to know what to change. Excellent forwards coach, but the old style Tigers game won't win us anything this season, sorry to say, regardless of injuries.
It's not the absence of players that will cost us, it's the dearth of tactics.
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Saints will crucify us next week - anyone who watched their Munster game will have seen a pack on fire. (sorry about the mixed metaphors!)
We are bereft of tactical nouse - and I don't think Cockers has the all round experience to know what to change. Excellent forwards coach, but the old style Tigers game won't win us anything this season, sorry to say, regardless of injuries.
It's not the absence of players that will cost us, it's the dearth of tactics.
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Darc Tiger
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Re: Expectation Management
To be honest, I thought Grindal and Jezza have been playing pretty well the last few weeks.
Hard to explain why the attacking was so ineffective yesterday. It cant purely be that Billy wasnt playing. Cant it?
Hard to explain why the attacking was so ineffective yesterday. It cant purely be that Billy wasnt playing. Cant it?
Re: Expectation Management
Who can honestly put their hand up and say that they do not expect us to be in the mix at the end of the season? Not me.
We're always trudging around in mediocrity at the start of the season, often with valid rationale. This time it's a surfeit of away games, injuries in key positions, a weaker squad because of departures and economic reality, hangover from long 2008/09 season and Lions tour etc etc
But the reality is when it comes to the crunch, when the fat lady sings, when the cookie crumbles, or whatever metaphor you wish to use, we will be right up there. No question. We have the desire, the spirit , the rugby nouse, the experience and the players. No question.
Those teams, like London Irish, who are have well-prepared backs and play with pace, albeit sticking to a strict dictum laid down by their coaching team, will always fare well against us early in the season.
If you believe the papers and general heresay, LI are in fine fettle. If you watched the game yesterday, there was little desire from us; I'm thus happy with a point.
Croft is way off the pace but he'll come good. Crane looks lethargic but he's a fair weather player. Moody looks fitter than I've ever seen him and is by far the best openside in the premiership - so let Croft chill for a bit and allow Crane to wait for the warmth of spring to bring fire into his loins.
Castro is infringing far too often, but he always does, and his handling is poor, as it always has been, but his positive contribution will outweigh his detractions as his fitness improves.
Our half-backs and centres are poor, but they have never been our r-aison d'etre, and once Flood, Mauger and Vesty return, so will comprehensive victories.
Scrum-half is the only area of mild concern, but let's show some faith in Ben Youngs
We're always trudging around in mediocrity at the start of the season, often with valid rationale. This time it's a surfeit of away games, injuries in key positions, a weaker squad because of departures and economic reality, hangover from long 2008/09 season and Lions tour etc etc
But the reality is when it comes to the crunch, when the fat lady sings, when the cookie crumbles, or whatever metaphor you wish to use, we will be right up there. No question. We have the desire, the spirit , the rugby nouse, the experience and the players. No question.
Those teams, like London Irish, who are have well-prepared backs and play with pace, albeit sticking to a strict dictum laid down by their coaching team, will always fare well against us early in the season.
If you believe the papers and general heresay, LI are in fine fettle. If you watched the game yesterday, there was little desire from us; I'm thus happy with a point.
Croft is way off the pace but he'll come good. Crane looks lethargic but he's a fair weather player. Moody looks fitter than I've ever seen him and is by far the best openside in the premiership - so let Croft chill for a bit and allow Crane to wait for the warmth of spring to bring fire into his loins.
Castro is infringing far too often, but he always does, and his handling is poor, as it always has been, but his positive contribution will outweigh his detractions as his fitness improves.
Our half-backs and centres are poor, but they have never been our r-aison d'etre, and once Flood, Mauger and Vesty return, so will comprehensive victories.
Scrum-half is the only area of mild concern, but let's show some faith in Ben Youngs
Re: Expectation Management
At the moment I am not overly worried, I will be worried after the 6N's if we dont have an established back line that works and has gelled.
Hamilton looked dismayed yesterday at the lost chances and I still think he should be captain! He had a rant when his previous team played badly, a good rant now would go down well.
As for 9 and 10, Ellis hasnt played well and really needs Bedford game time!
Grndal and Staunton are looking better!
Hamilton looked dismayed yesterday at the lost chances and I still think he should be captain! He had a rant when his previous team played badly, a good rant now would go down well.
As for 9 and 10, Ellis hasnt played well and really needs Bedford game time!
Grndal and Staunton are looking better!
Re: Expectation Management
Can't say anything better than the 2 posts above this one.
I am very happy with where we are right now. 8 games. 4 wins. 2 draws and 2 (bonus point) loses.
With the injuries we have sitting 5th in the league is looking pretty good (and top of our Heineken group as well)
Lets put it this way yesterday was poor but we still had one of the top sides in the country failing to look like scoring trys. That shows a really good side!
I expect us to be in that top 4 as usual and hopefully qualifying from our Heineken group as well
Stealing a well used phrase in this forum but keep the faith
I am very happy with where we are right now. 8 games. 4 wins. 2 draws and 2 (bonus point) loses.
With the injuries we have sitting 5th in the league is looking pretty good (and top of our Heineken group as well)
Lets put it this way yesterday was poor but we still had one of the top sides in the country failing to look like scoring trys. That shows a really good side!
I expect us to be in that top 4 as usual and hopefully qualifying from our Heineken group as well
Stealing a well used phrase in this forum but keep the faith
Re: Expectation Management
AMEN !!!tac106 wrote:Who can honestly put their hand up and say that they do not expect us to be in the mix at the end of the season? Not me.
We're always trudging around in mediocrity at the start of the season, often with valid rationale. This time it's a surfeit of away games, injuries in key positions, a weaker squad because of departures and economic reality, hangover from long 2008/09 season and Lions tour etc etc
But the reality is when it comes to the crunch, when the fat lady sings, when the cookie crumbles, or whatever metaphor you wish to use, we will be right up there. No question. We have the desire, the spirit , the rugby nouse, the experience and the players. No question.
Those teams, like London Irish, who are have well-prepared backs and play with pace, albeit sticking to a strict dictum laid down by their coaching team, will always fare well against us early in the season.
If you believe the papers and general heresay, LI are in fine fettle. If you watched the game yesterday, there was little desire from us; I'm thus happy with a point.
Croft is way off the pace but he'll come good. Crane looks lethargic but he's a fair weather player. Moody looks fitter than I've ever seen him and is by far the best openside in the premiership - so let Croft chill for a bit and allow Crane to wait for the warmth of spring to bring fire into his loins.
Castro is infringing far too often, but he always does, and his handling is poor, as it always has been, but his positive contribution will outweigh his detractions as his fitness improves.
Our half-backs and centres are poor, but they have never been our r-aison d'etre, and once Flood, Mauger and Vesty return, so will comprehensive victories.
Scrum-half is the only area of mild concern, but let's show some faith in Ben Youngs
The maul is back! JUSTICE !
Re: Expectation Management
harry ellis is a good player but with his knee im hoping england leave him alone for the autumn let him rest play him in the anglo welsh games off the bench replacing youngs and tell him if he dosent sort it out then that will be were he stays. this will also give youngs the confidence he needs and game experience which is the only thing keeping him off the pitch at the moment. we have one of the best backrows in england and possibly europe with flood and mauger back it will solve the 10 12 problem. all we need then is our captain back and were looking good. as long as we dont get more injuries.