Heineken Cup Draw - Tues 09th June - Discussion here please

[Bill W]

Tier 1 is made up of the six top ranked teams in the ERC European Rankings. These teams cannot meet each other until the knock-out phase. The six teams in Tier 1 will be as follows:

LEINSTER
MUNSTER
LEICESTER TIGERS
TOULOUSE
BATH
BIARRITZ OLYMPIQUE

[bluntiger]

Tier 1 is made up of the six top ranked teams in the ERC European Rankings. These teams cannot meet each other until the knock-out phase. The six teams in Tier 1 will be as follows:

LEINSTER
MUNSTER
LEICESTER TIGERS
TOULOUSE
BATH
BIARRITZ OLYMPIQUE

Biarritz are living on past glories me thinks. Everyone in the second tier will be hoping they get into Biarritz's group. They finished fifth, 21 points off the pace in the top 14.

[Bill W]

Biarritz are living on past glories me thinks. Everyone in the second tier will be hoping they get into Biarritz's group. They finished fifth, 21 points off the pace in the top 14.

This is true. The ERC Rankings are:


Rank Team Name Total Points Pts 2008-2009 Pts 2007-2008 Pts 2006-2007 Pts 2005-2006
1 Munster 33 7 11 4 11
2 Leicester Tigers 26 9 3 9 5
3 Leinster 24 11 2 5 6
4 Toulouse 21 4 9 3 5
5 Bath Rugby 20 5 5 3 7
6 Biarritz Olympique Pays Basque 20 3 3 5 9

[bluntiger]

Biarritz are living on past glories me thinks. Everyone in the second tier will be hoping they get into Biarritz's group. They finished fifth, 21 points off the pace in the top 14.

This is true. The ERC Rankings are:


Rank Team Name Total Points Pts 2008-2009 Pts 2007-2008 Pts 2006-2007 Pts 2005-2006
1 Munster 33 7 11 4 11
2 Leicester Tigers 26 9 3 9 5
3 Leinster 24 11 2 5 6
4 Toulouse 21 4 9 3 5
5 Bath Rugby 20 5 5 3 7
6 Biarritz Olympique Pays Basque 20 3 3 5 9

And the two 3 points they got for the 2008/9 and 2007/8 seasons meant they were eliminated at the group stages. And the 9 points they got for the 2005/6 season meant they lost in the final.

[Ben the Tiger]

From looking at the tams on the web link below, I wouldn't mind a pool with any of the following in -

Gloucester
Brive
Ulster
Scarlets
Viadana
Calvisano
Northampton
Glasgow

Or knowing Tigers luck we will get a pool with Stade, Clermont, Cardiff, London Irish or Harlequins in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8068461.stm

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

Considering the tiering what would happen if there was no English or French team in one tier? Would they make a group without representation or would they modify the weighting of previous years to arrange it?

[Bill W]

Considering the tiering what would happen if there was no English or French team in one tier? Would they make a group without representation or would they modify the weighting of previous years to arrange it?

There would be no problem, they would not have to modify anything. They would distribute the teams, according to tiers, across the pools.

[Pete]

Presumably the top six English teams will all be in separate groups, leaving Northampton to be placed in a group with another English team.

[dailywaffle]

Biarritz are living on past glories me thinks. Everyone in the second tier will be hoping they get into Biarritz's group. They finished fifth, 21 points off the pace in the top 14.

BOPB were stricken with injuries in the first half of the season, but have won 12 of their last 14 games. I would expect them to be much tougher next season.

[dailywaffle]

Or knowing Tigers luck we will get a pool with Stade, Clermont, Cardiff, London Irish or Harlequins in.

Group of death would be something like:
Leicester
Ospreys
ASM Clermont
Quins

Group of life, relatively speaking:
Leicester
SF or USAP
Dragons
Any Italian

AFAIK the only English club that we can draw is Quins.

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

Considering the tiering what would happen if there was no English or French team in one tier? Would they make a group without representation or would they modify the weighting of previous years to arrange it?

There would be no problem, they would not have to modify anything. They would distribute the teams, according to tiers, across the pools.

I thought all groups were meant to have 1 French and 1 English club apart from one group which got the 7th club from either France or England. Did this get totally replaced with the tiering?

[LessThanSte]

Yeh i wondered that, the idea in the champions league, for example, is that english clubs cant meet until the knockout stages. Is this the same in the HEC or could, say, one group consist of 2 or 3 english teams (if the draw went that way?)

[Bill W]

AFAIK the only English club that we can draw is Quins.

Concur.

Quins are the lowest ranked English Club and are therefore Englands seventh Club

[LeinsterCormac]

It's highly unlikely that there will ever be a scenario where there were no French and English clubs in the top tier so can't imagine it ever being an issue. Teams can't be placed in the same group as another team from the same country, with the exception this year of Harlequins. As there are seven English teams in the competition next year, one group will contain two English teams. As Harlequins are the lowest ranked of the English sides, they will find themselves in a group with another English side.

There are four tiers and one team from each tier will be placed into a group. As mentioned above Tier 1 contains Leinster, Munster, Leicester, Toulouse, Bath and Biarritz. This is set in stone. 23 of the 24 places are decided, the last place will go to either the Newport Gwent Dragons or Calvisano who meet in a play-off this Friday. Assuming the Dragons win the rest of the seedings will be as follows.

Tier 2 - Cardiff Blues, Ospreys, Gloucester, London Irish, Perpignan, Stade Francais
Tier 3 - Ulster, Newport Gwent Dragons, Scarlets, Clermont Auvergne, Sale, Northampton
Tier 4 - Harlequins, Brive, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Viadana, Treviso

Plenty of good teams in Tier 2, with my Leinster head on, Gloucester are possibly the weakest of the six sides. In Tier 3 Clermont are the side no-one wants to draw, Northampton have potential, Sale going through a lot of changes, while the three Celtic are obdurate at home but usually easy meat away.

From Tier 4, no-one will want Harlequins as this will mean two English sides in the group, while Brive are a bit of an unknown quantity. Edinburgh and Glasgow remain tricky opposition who can be good on their day but are still quite beatable home and away.

For Leicester a dream group looks like Leicester, Perpignan, Scarlets, Viadana whilst the group of death is probably Leicester, Ospreys/Cardiff, Clermont, Harlequins.

For my team Leinster, best possible outcome is Leinster, Gloucester, Dragons, Brive. Worst possible is Leinster, London Irish, Clermont, Harlequins.

[BrumJim2]

Tier 2 - Cardiff Blues, Ospreys, Gloucester, London Irish, Perpignan, Stade Francais
Tier 3 - Ulster, Newport Gwent Dragons, Scarlets, Clermont Auvergne, Sale, Northampton
Tier 4 - Harlequins, Brive, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Viadana, Treviso

Alternatively, and perhaps somewhat selfishly:

Tier 2 - Perpignan. South of France in winter sounds like a good excuse for some warmth.
Tier 3 - Well, I've blown my French budget (of 1) and England is out, so Ulster sounds good. Went to Belfast once before - its no Dublin, but pleasant enough, but educational when you see all the murals, road kerb painting and bunting.
Tier 4 - No preference except NOT Edinburgh. I've watched Tigers their twice, and we lost both times. Harlequins are near the in-laws, Glasgow is actually very nice, Viadana and Treviso are Italian (but I think going there will be just a dream), which is good (warm, good coffee, good food, etc), and Brive is the new home of Andy Goode, so can't be that bad.