Superb Effort. 2 areas of weakness.

[Outlander]

Well, folks, I just watched the delayed viewing on Setanta. Tough to take, eh?

As others have said, I am proud of Tigers, who made an immense effort out there.

I also feel that this game, played against an equally tough opponent, revealed our 2 weaknesses.

One weakness is one I always thought of as a strength. I dunno what has happened the past couple of weeks in our lineout, but it has really fallen apart. One way or another, we need a better and more consistent lineout next year.

The other, I think, comes down to our lack of a specialist fly half. I absolutely love Vesty, as all of you do, and he is wonderful at running the attacks. The problem is that his kicking from hand just is not top shelf. That young kid from Leinster widely outplayed Sam kicking for position.

To me, those 2 things made the difference. The teams were roughly equal defending, contesting the ball, and attacking. But the missed lineouts and tactical kicking differential put us in jail in our own end and kept us from building any pressure on Leinster.

In a game that closely contested, you can't afford to concede that much in those areas. Get to even in those areas, and I think we win that game.

Well, it does no good to fret over a game we've lost. But I think these things help us looking ahead.

I don't think it's a matter of bottling the game, unless that's the explanation for the poor lineout. I think that our weakness in tactical kicking arises from injuries and it was simply a weakness we could not overcome. Compared to the '07 final, for example, I think we played a fine game and have no reason to be ashamed.

Most importantly, the management must pay serious attention to the #10 position. I personally think Flood is a fine #10, but I am not sure he is really top shelf kicking tactically either. And he is carrying a very serious injury and he is likely to be gone on international duty much of next year.

After that, we have Vesty, who can do his thing just as well from center and then ...

I dunno. I have seen references to some guys coming in and some guys who "can cover the #10 position."

I sincerely hope that management is not relying on jury rigged solutions at the #10 position. I really feel we need a #10 who can shape a game through kicking, as other teams do against us. I think we need a 10 who can offer consistently fine tactical kicking, not only in a given big game, but on a regular basis. In my view, this is perhaps our biggest area of weakness to address.

Well, folks, as Brooklyn Dodgers fans used to say, there's always next year. I sincerely hope we see a major signing at 10 to make that a very good year.

Congratulations to Tigers for a wonderful year!

[Hugonaut]

As usual Outlander, a very perceptive post.

Leicester very unlucky to lose both Geordan Murphy and Jordan Crane before the endgame - as a team showed huge ability and awareness to take 13 points when Leinster were down to 14 men.

Beyond that, the loss of Aaron Mauger and Toby Flood were definitely felt, even though Vesty performed admirably. They have the capability [be it from the start or from the bench] to alter a gameplan. Dan Hipkiss had an immense game, felt that he was the best three-quarter on the pitch.

[Phil B]

I agree with the points raised by Outlander.

However to win semis and finals you need some luck and in my view we probably used all ours up before the game. We did not play like European Champions yesterday, and for me the truth is we did not quite merit the win. So I think justice was done, Leinster were "on song" where we were not, despite some terrific performances eg Hipkiss.

Heads held high though. Its been a tough few weeks and we have shown how tough we are.

[rugger]

Some good points Outlander, just posted some similar ones for comment, have a look.

[Goffer3404]

I thought Erinle did well, none of his loopy runs, route one.

[crateman]

Spot on outlander. You can't win cups without a lineout or tactical kicking.

From my point of view, which was a very good one, many lineouts were lost due to Leinster barging. We were sat in G on the 10m line and had a great view of what was going on for these as they were right in front of us. I don't recall a single one of our throws where they didn't infringe.

[tigerburnie]

Sorry , but as an ex second row,alright not at this level,I can't recall any lineout where someone didn't infringe.It was part of the game and you dealt with it,it's called playing the ref.

[Outlander]

Sorry , but as an ex second row,alright not at this level,I can't recall any lineout where someone didn't infringe.It was part of the game and you dealt with it,it's called playing the ref.

TB, can you help me understand what went wrong last week and this?

I was fairly shocked to see us go so badly in the lineout with Kay and Chuter, 2 long standing ENG internationals, and Croft, a gifted jumper.

For me this is one of those bewildering technical areas of the game where I haven't a clue.

[mol2]

A few wayward throw ins - that's why I'd have started with Kayser.

It's harsh to blame Vesty - he's a stand in fly half - we needed a fly half who could have kicked for territory - that was the difference between the two sides on the day.

We missed Flood or even Hougaard. Vesty would have been more infuential at inside centre.

[Outlander]

It's harsh to blame Vesty - he's a stand in fly half - we needed a fly half who could have kicked for territory - that was the difference between the two sides on the day.

Well, this is exactly what I intended to say.

I love Vesty. He brings a lot to the table.

But I think he operates best at center and I totally agree that the absence of a specialist 10 who could kick for territory hurt us badly in this game. I don't "blame" Vesty. He has done wonderfully well in Flood's absence. But the limitations in his game hurt us on the day.

[HairyPencil]

Sa, has done us proud this year!!!

From being overlooked by two coaches in the last two seasons to getting first team status, albeit by default, he has looked the part and bought so much to the table.

His partnership with Aaron has been excellent but as I have said since day one, we haven't had a true specialist no 10 and kicker. We have missed that and could have made easier work for ourselves in the last few weeks when we needed to gain territory or close down a match.

It would be great if we could either keep Derick H and have a full season playing from him and maybe switch Sam Vesty to inside centre for next season.

The guys themselves have switched roles during several matches since Richard took over and I would hope that we could see Derick back in Tiger stripes next year.

Otherwise, I agree with the poster who said that it wasn't good enough to have signings who could "also play no 10"!

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

When Geordan went off heads went down and we didn't make the most of the wind behind our backs pushing them back.

This was epitomised in the last 8 minutes when we had 3 penalties, and each time Vesty only made 10-15 yards. By the time you tap the lineout down, then the scrum half ships it to the fly half you've got no gain.

I'm not trying to knock Sam, he played very well for the whole game but the penalty he took without about 15 minutes to go failed to find touch, Shaggy cought it and countered, knocked his confidence for his touch kicking

[westwinds31]

Phil B...spot on and my thoughts exactly. We basically ran out of luck yesterday...got a hefty dose of it vs Bath in the 1/4 final and another batch vs Cardiff. Add to that we rode our luck a bit against Irish and there was nothing left in the tank.

As per the thread though, a superb effort from the squad, I take my hat off to 2 players, Craig Newby and Ben Woods, who have taken our effort at the breakdown from pretty feeble (up until January) to world class.

[mike]

If Houggard had been at 10 we would have won . For all his defensive qualities , Vesty has a completely hopeless kicking game and in games at this level you need a 10 who can control the game . We had plenty of chances to push them back in the 2nd half but all Vesty could do was prod the ball back 15 yards or miss touch all together .
The lineout shambles was fairly predictable - how Chuter keeps getting picked over Ben Kayser is laughable - kayser is a better player in every facet of the game .
One of the plus points was Hipkiss - showed real penetration and his tackling has improved no end. We need a few more players with his direct approach .With a fly half who could kick he could make the 12 position his own and we could then get a really pacey outside centre to compliment him .

[Luke]

When Jordan Crane went off we lost our most consistent kicker...

I agree with all the comments about 10 and the lineout being the weak areas in this game, but not every game of the season. Up until the last couple of games they have been our strongest areas.

Lineouts have good days and bad days, I didn't see any worrying trend in our performance yesterday, just a bad day.

Vesty has been superb in the second half of the season. He isn't a 10 but has performed in spite of that for most of 2009. He has probably found his level (GP, rather than HC quality) and accordingly he wasn't quite up to scratch yesterday. I'm glad most people have been rational in appreciating that then going down the, 'Axe Vesty he's terrible' route.