England and the 6 Nations

[fleabane]

Read somewhere over the weekend, sorry can't remember where, some interesting observations on the Cips/Flood debate. Key is who plays 9. Argument was that a Care/Cips partnership is too unstable, so an Ellis/Cips, or Care/Flood combination most likely. Must admit, Ellis/Flood seems more sensible to me.......
Foden on the bench as utility.

[welshy3]

Don't know why people are talking up wales (guess the media have to talk about something). This tournament is another step into the unknown for every team. Shouldn't really throw inane comments about how the tournament is all about momentum etc but the fact of the matter is - it definately is.

[Mr W]

If England are considering Crane as a second row, then why not try the same with Easter? He has got all the right attributes and is not a poor lineout option either. This would then allow for a quicker backrow and with the likes of Sheridan, Hartley, Vickery & Easter there would be plenty of ball carriers in the tight five.

[Kinoulton]

Given that England aren't going to dominate the better teams, I think Goode might be a decent option.

He has a siege gun boot that could allow England to pin the opposition back a bit into their own territory.

We would need a back-up kicker for penalties and conversions though, just in case he has "one of those days" where he can't hit a cow's aris with a banjo.

[pogue3]

when will the team be announced? its usually tues/wed this week isn't it?

[Will S]

On the 10 debate I would stick with Cips over Goode. Goode is never going to be a long term solution but Cips could be a world beater. I do feel sorry for Cips as I had a bad injury and when you come back you are more hesitant for a while (every tackle you are waiting for that popping noise again) and it takes a while for this to get out of your mind (I wish I had Kelly Brooke to help in my recovery!!!). We should of rested Cips over the Autumn but instead we threw him straight in against the best sides in the world (with the best no 7's hunting him down), behind a pack that always seemed to be either static or going backwards and put huge expectations on his young shoulders (he came back into a similar situation at club level also). In the long run that experience will improve him as a player but short term it would have massively knocked his confidence. He simply needs a game or two behind a dominant pack and against opposition where he can find his game again. No offence meant to the Italians but they would be perfect for this. As soon as he finds his stride and swagger again the better for England.

[triage]

Andy Goode at F/H to steady the ship. Beat the Ospreys (sorry Wales) in Cardiff and who cares about the other games. I think the French and Irish games will be tough and close and we will need to take our chances.

A serious question and not meant to be having a go...so if it seems that way I apologise....however, If Goode were to play I honestly think you need to play 10 man rugby to win (which is not necessarily bad in it self) as I don't think Goode could run an open running game at International level (I may be wrong). The qustion is do you think you have a good enough pack to play that rugby?. E.G. under woodward you could have strangled teams to death, but do you think that the England pack is good enough to strangle the other teams?

I am not so sure (again willing to be proved wrong) but I think a lot of your strengths seem to be more in the backlline now and as a team I think you need to move away from the forward game that you could/used to use under Woodward at times.

any thoughts?

[G.K]

I think the illusion that England can only play 10 man Rugby and Goode can't run a game are two things I'm happy for the other 5 nations to believe.

[Bill W]

Wait and watch!!!

[Smurphswillgetya]

I think as we bring the youngsters on AG can do a job. He may not be flash but he has good hands, eye and boot. He can relieve pressure and use his kicks to beat rush defences. Remember his chip against Wasps,if Michelak or Cips had done it everybody would have raved.
England dont need to play a 10 man game but a combination of experience and adventure is a must.

[triage]

I think the illusion that England can only play 10 man Rugby and Goode can't run a game are two things I'm happy for the other 5 nations to believe.

I think your missing my point. I am saying that you are unable to play 10 man rugby as I don't believe your pack to be strong enough to dominate teams (unlike under woodward). However I believe if you picked Goode it would limit you to 10 man rugby (at international level) where your strengths lie elsewhere......If this is the case would you not agree that even though you have a decent pack it can not dominate as it has in days gone by and strangle a game on their own?

[Smurphswillgetya]

Well with Cips in the Saxon squad AG may well have a role to play. I think MJ will start with Flood and bring on AG but I would go the other way round. Let Ag take the early hits and then bring Flood on.

[G.K]

Triage - It is true our pack are not as dominant as they were say 5 or 6 years ago, helped in no small measure by the ELV's and the fact that currently we are not selecting our strongest pack anyway (else Borthwick for one would not be in it).

In any case I don't think England have ever played 10 man Rugby as we do have some good backs and always have had (e.g. previously Robinson, Lewsey, Greenwood), but more recently we just don't seem to get the right combination and get them playing together correctly.

[Will S]

I don't think England are especially weak at present. Man for man, and comparing against the other nations, England look good. Problem is putting it together as a team. Wales have not had a brilliant 3 or 4 years but win one 5 nations (which England did gift them slightly by self destructing in the last 10 mins) and suddendly everyone is saying they are unbeatable. I'm not having a dig at the Welsh, I just wish England could get the same belief in their game.

[LessThanSte]

Youd have to be daft not to start Vickery on current form, he's arguably playing better than any props in the home nations. Besides, playing White from the start means you'll be using up that supply of contact lens a bit too quickly!

Cant agree more with Goode, hopefully his inclusion in the training camp has opened some eyes and puts a bit of pressure on Cipriani/Flood. Even if Goode doesnt start, him being in form buts a pressure to perform on Cipriani/Flood which may get them to pick up their game!

I still dont rate Sackey and am glad that we dont have to hear Harrison/Barnes getting hot under the collar every time he's within 4 miles of a rugby ball!