CIPRIANI!!!!!!!!

gooders060981 · Post by **gooders060981** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:40 pm

TheTigerRoarsInTheHeart wrote:I think that the line-up should be:

15. Delon Armatage
14. Paul Sackey
13. Matthew Tait
12. Riki Flutey
11. Ugo Moyne
10. Toby Flood
9. Harry Ellis
1. Tim Payne
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Matt Stevens
4. Nick Kennedy
5. Steve Borthwick
6. Tom Croft
7. Tom Rees
8. James Haskell

16. Lee Mears
17. Phil Vickery
18. Simon Shaw
19. Micheal Lipman
20. Danny Care
21. Danny Cipriani
22. Jamie Noon

That is what I would pick also, I hope that we do see Tait in an England shirt this Saturday

Moose · Post by **Moose** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:44 pm

westy154 wrote:I wouldn't be unhappy with that team Richard, but I would keep Noon in for his solidity (not his biggest fan but I accept that he does an, albeit limited, job) at 13.

Agreed. The backline are going to have to be on good defensive form, as i imagine the SA backrow will be in their face for a good percentage of the match.

Chesterfield Chris · Post by **Chesterfield Chris** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:35 pm

I agree with comments made by such as westy154, johnh and AidanMcDowell. In my view Cipriani should be given a decent run along with Toby Flood (we now play a 22 man game) and I think given time both will flourish.

We have been very lucky in the recent past to have had a superstar in JW who picked himself. We are not there right now but I think Cipriani has the potential to fill JW's boots.

Johnno and his team of coaches and players need time to play, fail, learn and come out the other side rather like Woodward who had a number of reverses before it started to come good. To bin Cipriani now would be ridiculous.

If changes are required it is the pack where some people have observed that Vickery is past his sell-by date and I still dont particularly rate Sheridan (Julian White always gets the better of him at club level). What Shaw offers to the future of English Rugby at his age I dont see.

Dave W · Post by **Dave W** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:35 pm

I think I read somewhere recently that Tait picked up a hamstring injury against Worcester - not sure how serious and whether it will keep him out of the rest of the AI?

Tiger_Dad · Post by **Tiger_Dad** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:00 pm

I think some of you should get down from your ivory towers and give the boy a chance. I've read through this tread and it disappoints me that after only a few starts the majority of you resort to the types of comments I would expect from the fans of our fickle City neighbours.

He's undoubtedly the standout 10 in the premiership and is one of the youngest. The difference in pace and intensity between the premiership and top class test rugby is huge. It also didn't help that our forwards spent most of the match on the back foot.

Don't you think therefore he needs a decent run to gain the experience and understand what is required to win at this level? This will not be achieved in a few outings. He needs the rest of the autumn internationals and then all of the six nations, as only then, will we have a better understanding of his potential at test level.

This is not a club thing but a question of developing our best players and giving them our full support.

Besides if there's anyone I trust anyone to make the right decisions it Johnno...

willstar · Post by **willstar** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:50 am

How about flood starting at 10 with cipriani at 15 against SA?

G.K · Post by **G.K** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:17 am

Why would you want to do that when Delon Armitage is playing so well there?? Deal with the problem area, FH, amongst others and leave the non-problem areas alone.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:34 am

Pete wrote:I don't think Kelly Brook is the answer to England's fly half problem!

She may be. If the agreement is that whoever gets to play at fly half can go out with Kelly Brook, there'll be a heck of a lot of competition for the shirt.

gooders060981 · Post by **gooders060981** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:55 am

Tiger_Dad wrote:I think some of you should get down from your ivory towers and give the boy a chance. I've read through this tread and it disappoints me that after only a few starts the majority of you resort to the types of comments I would expect from the fans of our fickle City neighbours.

He's undoubtedly the standout 10 in the premiership and is one of the youngest. The difference in pace and intensity between the premiership and top class test rugby is huge. It also didn't help that our forwards spent most of the match on the back foot.

Don't you think therefore he needs a decent run to gain the experience and understand what is required to win at this level? This will not be achieved in a few outings. He needs the rest of the autumn internationals and then all of the six nations, as only then, will we have a better understanding of his potential at test level.

This is not a club thing but a question of developing our best players and giving them our full support.

Besides if there's anyone I trust anyone to make the right decisions it Johnno...

So how many bad performances and lost games do England need under their belt before we can say "we gave him a shot"?

What you say is cobblers, this is international rugby not school boy team play. If he isnt able, find someone that is and fast, we have the whole country to choose from, I think we have given him his chance for a while. Put him back in the training camp and give him game time for the Wasps and see what happens for the 6 nations, but I think we have discovered that he just isnt able for this right now.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:37 am

I would be very happy with Cipriani at 10 for England when (not if) he regains his form after his very recent and serious ankle injury. Selecting him so soon after his incredibly early recovery did him no favours. He may be a great player, but superman he is not.

I put it down to an isolated mistake by Johnno before his first match in charge. He makes few mistakes and learns from them fast. I doubt he will make the same mistake again.

Moose · Post by **Moose** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:52 am

On the subject of Armitage, what are the views on him at OC? I know he's played there a reasonable amount in the past, is obviously good going forward, and seems to have the defensive capabilities too - this could allow Cipriani to move to FB, and Flood in at FH - thinking less about covering Cipriani's frailties, and more about maximising the talents of others.

gooders060981 · Post by **gooders060981** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:58 am

jgriffin wrote:I'm getting really fed up of the non-stop Cipriani rubbish in the papers. MJ is manager and there are 21 others in the team, but no we have to hear from him. The Times even managed to report the game mentioning virtually no player except him, and had a separate column featuring mostly.....

Let's hear it for all the other English players, squad, Saxons or wannabees!

Let's hear it for the real class of the side - and he dropped a goal - Delon Armitage.

I agree, I am bored of all the talk of Cipriani in the papers, I was hoping to read about the brillaint performaces from Armitage, Croft and Ellis and Flood when they come on (the really do make a difference). But instead all there is to read is Cipriani this Cipriani that, bored of it, get rid of him, let him become a media celebrity and let is have our gentlemans game back.