England Team to face Australia

Chobbsy · Post by **Chobbsy** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:11 pm

England team: D Armitage (London Irish); P Sackey (Wasps), J Noon (Newcastle), R Flutey (Wasps), U Monye (Harlequins); D Cipriani (Wasps), D Care (Harlequins); A Sheridan (Sale Sharks), L Mears (Bath), P Vickery (Wasps), S Borthwick (Saracens, capt), T Palmer (Wasps), T Croft (Leicester), T Rees (Wasps), N Easter (Harlequins).
Replacements: D Hartley (Northampton), M Stevens (Bath), S Shaw (Wasps), J Haskell (Wasps), M Lipman (Bath), H Ellis (Leicester), T Flood (Leicester).

I thought Matt Stevens had done enough to keep his place, but Vickery is back in.

westy154 · Post by **westy154** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:17 pm

Palmer I can understand. He offers more bulk, but less lineout option than Kennedy who had a decent game, so I guess MJ wants to try and smash 'em up front.

Vickery, don't really understand that. BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 720730.stm) says he offer more scrummaging power, but that is clearly nonsense. He must be simply going for experience, which is a bit disappointing.

Thought Tait might have been drafted in at either 13 or 15, possibly moving Armitage to centre if they wanted him at full back. But you can't argue that Armitage doesn't deserve to retain his full back place.

Good to see Croft staying put.

chinnjamie · Post by **chinnjamie** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:20 pm

O my good god!I finally think we have realized that Phil Vickery is useless and Matt Stevens is so much better and then this happens. Lets bring the 2 dinosaurs back in shall we

. I didnt even agree with having them on the bench last week, but was willing to let it go due to understanding having a bit of experience on the bench, but in my eyes this is a giant step backwards. Stevens is younger, better at running with the ball and off loading and i also believe a better prop. Maybe we are going for uncontested scrums

JonJon · Post by **JonJon** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:24 pm

Suspect it was a toss up between dropping Kennedy or Croft to add a bit more bulk. Picking Vickery sends a message that we'll be punishing the Aussies in the scrum, but relies on the ref being alert to any misdemeanours - and that doesn't often happen.
Glad to see the backs unchanged, suspect that Noon will find his skillset more useful against the Aussies.

tigermad · Post by **tigermad** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:44 pm

A strong lineup and great to see Croft maintaining his place at 6. Kennedy must be perplexed at being dropped from the 22 as he had a good game last weekend. As for Vickery at 3? Answers on a postcard please.

Gonzo · Post by **Gonzo** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:02 pm

Poor Matt Stevens!

OK, so Vickery scrummages well, but Stevens has a far better all round game, including being highly effective in the scrum. Having said that, Johnno knows best and Vickery must be salivating at the thought of destroying the Aussie front row again!

tigerfeet13 · Post by **tigerfeet13** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:06 pm

And after the team for the PI game I thought our Martin had seen the light re Vickery.

How wrong I was!

More moody cow now than raging bull.

westy154 · Post by **westy154** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:13 pm

In Johnno we must trust...

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:58 pm

Vickery cannot remember how to play the last part of a game, so he is not much good as substitute.

Play him at the beginning, and bring on the stronger prop at half time when the Aussies will begin to collapse!

hiraldos · Post by **hiraldos** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:20 pm

Note the absence of Leicester players from the team - Johnson obviously not happy with the form this season!

WhitecapTiger · Post by **WhitecapTiger** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:37 pm

Pete Posted: Vickery cannot remember how to play the last part of a game, so he is not much good as substitute.

Play him at the beginning, and bring on the stronger prop at half time when the Aussies will begin to collapse!

Or indeed when he's collapsed himself Pete!!!

drc_007 · Post by **drc_007** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:59 pm

It has been suggested that Oz are employing a number of front row tricks to hide their problems in the scrum. A wily old campaigner like Vickery is perhaps more likely to cope and point the tricks out to the ref.

Added to which how will the Aus front-row feel if after 60 mins or so England bring on Hartley, Stevens Haskell and Shaw.

G.K · Post by **G.K** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:32 pm

You what- Vickery can handle Aussie tricks?? No way - I still remember the RWC2003 final when Vickery could not work out the ref, Watson, and Jason Leonard had to be sent on to save the situation!

Rizzo · Post by **Rizzo** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:15 pm

Anyone care to bet whether the esteemed Mr Vickery will last the full 80?