Ref's School

[jonnyatom5]

After sitting in the Crumbie, watching the match on Friday night and listening to the various pundits on TV over the weekend, I've come to the decision that the refs policing the premiership need to undertake an intense refresher course.

It seems there is a massive inconsistency throughout the reffing in the league which needs to be addressed. I know there's always been differences in reffing styles, but there is a gulf forming and it's making the game very unwatchable and frustrating. Lord only knows how frustrating it is for the players.

Lastly, with the ELV's and our new 'Assistant referees', does this mean they have to do less than the linesmen used to? I didn't see one call made by them on Friday night.

Don't get me wrong, about Friday, I think we deserved to lose, it wasn't particularly the refs fault, although Barnsey had a stinker too. This is a general feeling I'm getting throughout all of the games.

[jools43]

I remember Barnes coming to Welford Road not so long back and being appalling and yet I've seen him referee internationals well. Maybe he can't take the pressure and quite clearly has absolutely no assistance from his 'assistant referees!' There is no need to confuse ref's with new laws when they can't manage the old ones i.e. the ball goes into the scrum straight!!

I would agree we played very poorly and without any confidence. We constantly kicked away good attacking ball and didn't shift it around enough. While there defensive line was offside all night, you expect that from Wasps rush defense and work your game plan around it.

Now its got to the point where the Refs are ruining games, maybe something should be done!?!

[GS]

I'm surprised this thread didn’t start earlier, I guess we were all busy venting our spleens at the team’s woeful performance.

There have long been calls for more consistency between referees, and I think this inconsistency is due to egos and personalities taking over. When signaling a drop goal why did Barnes have to run under the posts and strike a pose? One wag behind us pointed out that he didn’t want to see the crowd in front of him but a large mirror. Some refs won’t give penalty tries and others go straight under the posts. The accuracy of throw ins can be penalized erratically through the same game, and so on. The teams must have a dossier on each ref so they know how the game will be refereed. This said the general standard of basic observation of the game by Barnes was abysmal on Friday.

I would have thought that there was a summer conference/school for refs to ensure consistency and accuracy. The instructions about policing the breakdown have gone a long way to destroying the game, but if you want a flowing backs game why not police the offside laws more. Surely this was the intention of making the TJs into Assistant Refs?

Just out of interest, is the difference between a rule and a law that a law is open to interpretation?

[voice of the crumbie]

GS refs are consistent. Consistently c..p when they referee at Tigers.

I agree that something has to be done because it's spoiling the game.

We always hear about referees assessors but given some of the abysmal performances over the past few seasons by avariety of refs not just the usual culprits (White, Barnes, Spreaders) I wonder exactly what their role is because we don't seem to see any improvements in consistency either between refs or by the same ref in the same game.

[dailywaffle]

I find it odd that all refs are 'abysmal' at Welford Road. Doubly so when Tigers lose.

I also find it odd that many around me roar their displeasure at the ref for making a perfectly correct decision. Albeit one against Leicester.

I think there is a perfectly reasonable debate to be had about the roles of Asst Refs, and of the referee's interpretation of the Laws. Reducing it to "<insert referee name> is cr*p" looks awfully like sour grapes to me.

[dailywaffle]

I would suggest that if the offsides and other offences were 'blatant' then they would not have been repeatedly missed by, potentially, three pairs of eyes. I exempt 'feeding' from this as this is not actually officiated at elite level.

The criticism of Barnes in particular, and referees in general on this board is way OTT.

[BenWL]

For me it's the role of the assistants.

They don't do a thing except signal when the ball goes into touch. Might as well not have them there. Are they allowed to signal for infringements because they never do despite having a much clearer view than the ref in certain circumstances?

[ChrisTiger]

Perhaps now with the ELVs there is simply too much going on on the pitch for one pair of eyes on the pitch and 2 pairs some 20 to 30 metres away to officiate. I wonder sometimes when a scrum is on one side of the pitch why the ref does not stand on the inside and call the assistant in to effectively ref the outside. That way both tighthead and loosehead are watched.

Maybe we should look to American football style officiating. One head ref. Two assistants, one in each half. And 2 touch judges. Final decisions rest with the main ref.

Just a thought.

[Bill W]

With on pitch TV Monitors for instant replays.

Why not!

[dailywaffle]

As Bill knows, I am certainly in favour of on-pitch monitors for TMO decisions.

The American Football model of multiple on-pitch referees is an interesting one, but my concern is that we would see whistle frenzy. The contradiction of rugby officiating remains; were one to spot every offence you would not have much of a match left to watch.

[Bill W]

But daily, the great rugby advantage law.

An offence only occurs when as a result the offending side gain an advantage!!

[dailywaffle]

Which requires judgement. How confident are we that three separate individuals would judge each 'offence' in the same manner?

I suspect this is why the AR's have had much less impact than was predicted.

[Bill W]

You may be right. But it cannot be beyond the wit of man to overcome it. The Assistant referee signals that he has seen an offence by side A. Ref decides whether an advantage has accrued.

[dailywaffle]

I understand the point, and have some sympathy. Refereeing is not easy, and assistance from the AR's should be welcome if done in such a fashion as to not destroy the game.

On the face of it, the AR ELV has had no impact at all thus far. Anyone seen different?