Harry Ellis

Iain · Post by **Iain** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:44 pm

Your call Simon, but Daveyboy's explanation is that an anterior cruciate ligament injury such as this one is all or nothing. As such the strapping is likely, if not definitely, to be for a different injury or knock. As has been said, the injury was achieved by the way he landed rather than the tackle itself and could have easily been done in training. Just a freak accident that could have happened to anyone. If he wasn't fit enough to be playing, he wouldn't have been playing. Simple as.

I just feel a lot of your accusing is based on hear say and speculation and jumping to wild conclusions rather than thinking rationally about it.

Bunchy · Post by **Bunchy** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:21 pm

simon redshaw wrote:Time will tell Iain, but I don't think that I am blindly accusing the coaches. I think that I have as much reason to put my argument as these "experts".

Simon - put another way, if Harry had of picked up a concussion or a shoulder injury last week and missed the next 2 games, would you still be questioning the decision to play him?
If you are to be consistent, you would be.

g · Post by g » Wed May 09, 2007 3:04 pm

Bunchy

I said I agreed with what Simon redshaw said. Did I actually say what bit I agreed with? No.

So how do you fathom out that I have got on the back of Howard and Cockerill? I haven't accused anybody of anything. I said I agreed with what he said.

So who's the drama queen now? You I think. You seem to make what I say up just to suit you.

anything_but_ordinary · Wed May 09, 2007 3:39 pm

i cannot believe u are all balmin the coaching staff, it is ridiculus!!!!

at the end of the day yes he has a bad injury and depending on the extent of the damage could be out for a while, i do not deny knowing harry and i am jus as in the dark about his injury as the rest of the supporters!!!

but i am sure that the england and tigers medical staff are going to do as much as they can to get the problem fixed and sorted and soon as physically possible!!

but i do no undersand how it is the coaches fault??? were they on the pitch when it happened???? no
did they do it to him????? no

swadtiger · Post by **swadtiger** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:43 pm

In attempt to move the debate on a little....

It says on the home page story that Scott Bemand WAS on the road to recovery?????? so whats happened to him again???

Daveyboy · Post by **Daveyboy** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:50 pm

I think it IS clear that many of us are supporting the coaching staff and trying to defuse the groundless theory that they were reckless in their management of Harry Ellis.

Well that my 2p worth anyway.

Bunchy · Post by **Bunchy** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:56 pm

g wrote:Bunchy

I said I agreed with what Simon redshaw said. Did I actually say what bit I agreed with? No.

So how do you fathom out that I have got on the back of Howard and Cockerill? I haven't accused anybody of anything. I said I agreed with what he said.

So who's the drama queen now? You I think. You seem to make what I say up just to suit you.

er....... simply because Simon's point that you are "agreeing" with is that the coaches were to blame for Harry's injury !!I would say that means you are jumping on the back of the coaches :?:

Do try to keep up

muttley75 · Post by **muttley75** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:38 pm

Having read this thread I am absolutely appalled that some people are jumping to conclusions over Harrys injury and whether or not he should've played!!

What I think a few of you are missing is if (and this is the crucial bit as it IS Harrys body) Harry thought that he was fit and would be able to play to the best of his ability and fitness, and the medical staff agreed with him then surely it's a no-brainer!! He plays!! Surely it makes sense for the coaches to put their best team out on the day if they are told that that XV are fit?

Some people seem to be accusing Paddy and Cockers of being a tad blase with players fitness and health. Such utter rot! If this were true, surely they wouldn't have used a rotation system in the first place to keep players as fit as possible over what is a long season!

We now have 2 very big games left this season, I cannot believe that EVERYONE isn't behind Paddy, Cockers and the team and wishing them all the best for those 2 remaining games (no matter WHO plays in them - they ALL are Tigers after all!)

Bunchy · Post by **Bunchy** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:42 pm

muttley75 wrote:Having read this thread I am absolutely appalled that some people are jumping to conclusions over Harrys injury and whether or not he should've played!!

What I think a few of you are missing is if (and this is the crucial bit as it IS Harrys body) Harry thought that he was fit and would be able to play to the best of his ability and fitness, and the medical staff agreed with him then surely it's a no-brainer!! He plays!! Surely it makes sense for the coaches to put their best team out on the day if they are told that that XV are fit?

Some people seem to be accusing Paddy and Cockers of being a tad blase with players fitness and health. Such utter rot! If this were true, surely they wouldn't have used a rotation system in the first place to keep players as fit as possible over what is a long season!

We now have 2 very big games left this season, I cannot believe that EVERYONE isn't behind Paddy, Cockers and the team and wishing them all the best for those 2 remaining games (no matter WHO plays in them - they ALL are Tigers after all!)

BEAUTIFULLY PUT !!! :glug:

anything_but_ordinary · Wed May 09, 2007 4:47 pm

the guy is at his fittest at the mo!!

he jus happened to go down on it funny that is all, it has nothing to do with his fitness at all, his knee wasnt giving him any trouble before the tackle it jus so happened that as he went down he must have twiseted in a funny way.

These things happen, there is nobody to blame.

Just get over the fact that he is out for the rest of the season!

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:19 pm

I came on the forum not many weeks ago and put something down that I could back up and gave one of the players a bit of advice - you Simon then chose to openly accused me of attacking that player - my opinion I had evidence too - but you openly had a go at me for stating my opinion - when I tried to sort it out by pm with you you went on the forum and openly attacked me again......... I say what comes around goes around........

g · Post by g » Wed May 09, 2007 6:22 pm

Bunchy

I am keeping up as a matter of fact. In none of the posts I've written have I said I blame the coaches or medical staff. Please point out where I am accusing the medical staff and coaches of negligence or blame.

Just because I said I agree with Simon doesn't necessarily mean I am blaming the coaches for Harrys injury.

I can agree with Simon in as much as maybe Harry shouldn't have been playing in the first place if he was injured. That is my opinion I don't have to agree with everyone on this forum. But like I said because I or Simon said something that wasn't in agreement with you or the other forum posters then we are talking cr@p and shouldn't have an opinion. It doesn't mean to say I blame the coaching staff for playing him.

I think it's you who needs to keep up for putting 2 and 2 together from what I wrote and making 5 from it.

Bill W · Post by **Bill W** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:35 pm

Peace people!!!

One cannot know what is going on inside a knee without an arthroscopy. (Key hole insertion of a fibre optic). That procedure itself will rule a player out for 3 - 6 weeks. Often within this procedure damage can be repaired. In which case recovery is likely 6 - 12 weeks. But, in extreme cases, can require further treatment.

How do I know? I have been there. Done that and got the scars. And I got there by jumping off my ride on mower (when I had an argument with a tree) and landing badly.

So peace!

nwnreader · Post by **nwnreader** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:36 pm

I'd say anyone commenting on the complex issue of how a player came by an injury without hands-on and detailed knowledge of the event and the player is being reckless. I expect everyone in the coaching/fitness/physio side of the club will be wishing it had not have happened, and examining whether there was anything they could have done to prevent it. That would start with the decision to play him with whatever 'injury' he had that required strapping. Trying to dump blame based on conjecture helps no-one and nothing. Also, who thinks Harry would take a risk with his health? He has a life beyond his rugby career, after all.
The blame culture is not the way. It was an accident. Do you think Harry wants to see supporters trying to apportion blame?

Big Dai · Post by **Big Dai** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:48 pm

If you're going to blame anything blame the playoffs! Just what was the point of the semis anyway?!? Has third or fourth EVER won?

I'd like to think that all this phlegm and bile is little more than a show of sympathy for a highly regarded young man who has been unlucky, very unlucky. Folk are just lashing out because they are dissapointed for him. I know I am!