I suppose you can guess from the username that I am a Bristol supporter, but don't let that put you off me!!!!
I've just stopped by to mull over how different refs impliment the advantage laws. Why on the Tigers' forum? Well I can't begin to understand where referee David Rose was coming from in the Tigers vs. L Irish game, where he called a Leics advantage over after what seemed like only two seconds, resulting shortly after in Topsy Ojo's try for the Exiles.
Last night at Ashton Gate, both Bath & Bristol had advantages played for approaching a minute, maybe more! Both times, Ref Sean Davey seemed to take the view (quite rightly in my view) that as no real territorial advantage had accrued, he was quite willing to take play back for the original offence.
It seems that David Rose's over-willingness to keep the game flowing, over and above playing by the book has cost you a win! Don't get me wrong, it's done me and the other Bristol supporters a favour, but in conclusion....
YOU WUZ ROBBED!!!!!!
Mike.
Advantage? Well sometimes!
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dailywaffle
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Re: Advantage? Well sometimes!
Welcome abooard, Mike :DBrisMike wrote:I suppose you can guess from the username that I am a Bristol supporter, but don't let that put you off me!!!!
I've just stopped by to mull over how different refs impliment the advantage laws. Why on the Tigers' forum? Well I can't begin to understand where referee David Rose was coming from in the Tigers vs. L Irish game, where he called a Leics advantage over after what seemed like only two seconds, resulting shortly after in Topsy Ojo's try for the Exiles.
Last night at Ashton Gate, both Bath & Bristol had advantages played for approaching a minute, maybe more! Both times, Ref Sean Davey seemed to take the view (quite rightly in my view) that as no real territorial advantage had accrued, he was quite willing to take play back for the original offence.
It seems that David Rose's over-willingness to keep the game flowing, over and above playing by the book has cost you a win! Don't get me wrong, it's done me and the other Bristol supporters a favour, but in conclusion....
YOU WUZ ROBBED!!!!!!
Mike.
I agree that advantage is not officiated consistently from one ref to the next. That said, I quite like Rose; he makes mistakes but he does keep the game flowing and (most important) he communicates well. I guess you can only play the ref you have, and its always pointless to moan about his decisions later. They tend not to get overturned !
Congrats on the win against the old rivals :D
It is different for each set of circumstances, I don't beelive there are even any guidelines provided by the IRB save them saying it is at the discretion of the referee.
Rugby is a game of territory, and not possession. In rugby League, should a team knock the ball on, providing the other team firmly secures possession, even if they are tackled immediately, the advantage to the knock on is called over. This is because the sports is all about possession, because it is so much harder to steal the ball, but given their offside laws, terrtiory comes somewhat easier.
The reason (I think) the advantage went on for so long in the Bristol Game (Great win for Bristol by the way) was because it was for a penalty and not merely a technical offence, and because the ball first went to one side of the pitch, then back to the other side, without ever seriously advancing towards the tryline. Therefore, no territorial advantage was gained and the penalty given.
Should teams choose to trade away possession for territory by kicking the ball downfield, the ref will usually call advantage over. However, if it is a penatly, and the kick is going to be caught by an opposition player, the ref usually comes back for the penalty.
I too felt that the advantage Mr Rose played against Tigers was far too short to be effective in that instance, but it was only a technical offence so maybe it wasn't? In general though I do think that advantages go on too long in our sport. Quite often teams will squander their own good fortune and have to rely on the ref still playing advantage, like George Gregan's invention of trying the drop goal becauce it is a free shot at goal effectively; that for me, is advantage enough in most respects.
Rugby is a game of territory, and not possession. In rugby League, should a team knock the ball on, providing the other team firmly secures possession, even if they are tackled immediately, the advantage to the knock on is called over. This is because the sports is all about possession, because it is so much harder to steal the ball, but given their offside laws, terrtiory comes somewhat easier.
The reason (I think) the advantage went on for so long in the Bristol Game (Great win for Bristol by the way) was because it was for a penalty and not merely a technical offence, and because the ball first went to one side of the pitch, then back to the other side, without ever seriously advancing towards the tryline. Therefore, no territorial advantage was gained and the penalty given.
Should teams choose to trade away possession for territory by kicking the ball downfield, the ref will usually call advantage over. However, if it is a penatly, and the kick is going to be caught by an opposition player, the ref usually comes back for the penalty.
I too felt that the advantage Mr Rose played against Tigers was far too short to be effective in that instance, but it was only a technical offence so maybe it wasn't? In general though I do think that advantages go on too long in our sport. Quite often teams will squander their own good fortune and have to rely on the ref still playing advantage, like George Gregan's invention of trying the drop goal becauce it is a free shot at goal effectively; that for me, is advantage enough in most respects.
John
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He is able to lift up a heavy object when that heavy object says "lift me now".
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He is able to lift up a heavy object when that heavy object says "lift me now".
One thing I did like fromthe referee in the Bristol/Bath game was when he got the 2 captains together to warn about the numbers of penalties given away. After he had offered the usual warning of "next one goes to the bin", he asked them both "Have I made myself clear?"
I liked that touch. Nice and clear and makes both captains confirm they understand his instruction. I like good clear instructions from the ref.
I liked that touch. Nice and clear and makes both captains confirm they understand his instruction. I like good clear instructions from the ref.
John
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He is able to lift up a heavy object when that heavy object says "lift me now".
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He is able to lift up a heavy object when that heavy object says "lift me now".
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MelChannerFan
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" I am surprised no one commented that when LM knocked forward after AGs cross kick, it was because he was tackled in the air, which should have been a penalty at least if not a penalty try!"
that was right in front of me and i thought exactly the same!!
Back on the original subject of advantage how about the penalty LI got in front of the posts near the end of the 1st half?
He gave advantage on our 22 as they moved it wide. They almost scored in the corner, recycled it again and then got a penalty for no advantage in front of the posts????
that was right in front of me and i thought exactly the same!!
Back on the original subject of advantage how about the penalty LI got in front of the posts near the end of the 1st half?
He gave advantage on our 22 as they moved it wide. They almost scored in the corner, recycled it again and then got a penalty for no advantage in front of the posts????
Whilst on subject of decisions in London Irish game, is a TMO able to give a penalty try?
In the incident when we were driving from a lineout in the second half the ref went to the TMO to check whether ball was grounded and the replays showed that Justin Bishop had got under the ball and stopped it being grounded, however, he's managed that by entering the maul from the side, Stuart Barnes (bless him!) muttered something about it being a penalty try and then shut up (maybe under instruction from director). The try was disallowed and a penalty given that the ref was already playing advantage for and then Moody scored and the conversion missed!
What powers does a TMO have?
In the incident when we were driving from a lineout in the second half the ref went to the TMO to check whether ball was grounded and the replays showed that Justin Bishop had got under the ball and stopped it being grounded, however, he's managed that by entering the maul from the side, Stuart Barnes (bless him!) muttered something about it being a penalty try and then shut up (maybe under instruction from director). The try was disallowed and a penalty given that the ref was already playing advantage for and then Moody scored and the conversion missed!
What powers does a TMO have?
That's what I thought, he can only judge on events on or over the line can't he?
Didn't a TMO at the Ireland/England match last season have a clear picture of an Irishman (Hogan?) putting a foot in touch and yet couldn't comment on it?
Is this a loophole? Could the TMO on Tuesday have said "the ball wasn't grounded, but you might consider....."?
Didn't a TMO at the Ireland/England match last season have a clear picture of an Irishman (Hogan?) putting a foot in touch and yet couldn't comment on it?
Is this a loophole? Could the TMO on Tuesday have said "the ball wasn't grounded, but you might consider....."?
It's not just the advantage law that needs standardising, what about the fact that the ref blew the final whistle 30 seconds early!!!! I'm not saying it would have made much difference but there are some games that go on for longer than a mozart opera. The clocks surley are all linked as the one is at WR?
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Rlinksteve
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The TMO can only respond to the question asked by the ref.
Was the ball grounded properly? Yes or No
Was the player in touch? Yes or now.
Now you hear the ref ask the TMO, "Is there any reason that I cannot award the try?"
This gives the TMO the right to respond accordingly if their has been anything that took place in the act of scoring the try.
He can call it in touch, even if the ref had not aked for it. The TMO covers all visible aspects of the scoring.
Hope this helps.
Was the ball grounded properly? Yes or No
Was the player in touch? Yes or now.
Now you hear the ref ask the TMO, "Is there any reason that I cannot award the try?"
This gives the TMO the right to respond accordingly if their has been anything that took place in the act of scoring the try.
He can call it in touch, even if the ref had not aked for it. The TMO covers all visible aspects of the scoring.
Hope this helps.
i noticed that as well .... nevermind milk been spiltdave2 wrote:I thought it was odd at the time, but after watching the match again on TV afterwards I noticed that the ref actually called advantage over after we had lost the ball - thanks for the heads up eh?!
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