Provinces v Clubs

[East-Munster Man]

I'm was always interested to know what the english feel about this. Take Munster - Population of approx 1 million , Leinster Population over 2 Million and Ulster maybe 1.5 Million. 3 Provinces competing against Leicester - population of about 140,000 according to wikipedia and other small english cities of similar size like bath, gloucester , northampton etc. Do you guys feel this is a bit unfair to be competing against provincial sides or does the fact that the english and irish sides are reasonably able to compete with each other over-ride all of this. I suppose nothing else can really be done about it.

[dailywaffle]

The idea of English 'super clubs' (e.g. Leicester twinned with Northampton) occasionally gets floated, but the fans would hate the idea. Many years ago I know, but the old English Divisional championship was as popular as a fart in a lift.

There is an argument for reducing the number of clubs in the GP, but that's a different discussion.

For the moment, there is parity between the top clubs and the Irish provinces. In which case, club v province is still fine.

[G.K]

East Munster Man. Your comparison is not valid for Leicester Tigers. Leicester Tigers are not just supported by those in Leicester but they are effectively the GP team for the East Midlands (a region) and the catchment area is thus much larger. There are also many supporters from further afield, this is very apparant from the locations of those on this forum.

I would suggest therefore that for Leicester Tigers and many of the other GP clubs that they are already regional/provincial teams and for Leicster I would estimate the catchment area at between 1 and 2 million not 140k.

There may be more of a point as regards other clubs but could you ever see Glaws joining up with Barf or Brisle? No neither can I.

[Osprey in Leicester]

I'm was always interested to know what the english feel about this. Take Munster - Population of approx 1 million , Leinster Population over 2 Million and Ulster maybe 1.5 Million. 3 Provinces competing against Leicester - population of about 140,000 according to wikipedia and other small english cities of similar size like bath, gloucester , northampton etc. Do you guys feel this is a bit unfair to be competing against provincial sides or does the fact that the english and irish sides are reasonably able to compete with each other over-ride all of this. I suppose nothing else can really be done about it.

I do believe Leicester is approx the same size as Swansea with the population being aroung 275k but as has been mentioned with the English population being approx 50 million these regional figures are irelevant.
Dont kid yourself about the resouces in Ireland, there are more people playing rugby in England than in any other country in the world.....so no I definitely think its not unfair.

[westy154]

It isn't about the size of the area though is it? It is about the size of the club. If the players were only made up of local lads, then maybe, but the last i looked, Trever Halstead and Christian Cullen didn't come from Munster! :D

Leicester are a big club. BIG. Not being one-eyed, but we are the most profitable club in the country with the biggest attendance and the widest fan base. I live in Nottingham, having grown up in Leicester, and although Nottingham has it's own team, a lot of people here follow Tigers (to a degree), a team based some 30 miles south.

So is it unfair for Munster to play Tigers? No I don't think it is, because quite frankly, the clubs are pretty comparable in size.

[cal]

Adding on to what westy154 was saying, I also live in Nottingham but support Tigers, mainly because Nottingham always steal our best players from the club I play for.

[WiganTiger]

At least in England, any of the Premiership clubs can qualify for the Heineken Cup, unlike in Ireland.

Irish HC selection process: Q: "Are you Connaught?" if no then you qualify!

[East-Munster Man]

thanks guys, just wanted to get an english reaction to that. didn't realise leicester had such a pull outside of leicester itself which is great for them. And i suppose the majority of munster , geographically wise is Gaelic football and hurling territory bar limerick which levels it out a bit.

[Stu_F]

The old Divisional Championship was great, you could turn up 1 minute before kick off and the gatepeople would be so delighted to see someone (anyone) that they would personally escort you to the best seat in the ground.

Parking round the ground was never a problem either!

The rugby was :censored: though as I recall!

[Dangerous4]

I'm was always interested to know what the english feel about this. Take Munster - Population of approx 1 million , Leinster Population over 2 Million and Ulster maybe 1.5 Million. 3 Provinces competing against Leicester - population of about 140,000 according to wikipedia and other small english cities of similar size like bath, gloucester , northampton etc. Do you guys feel this is a bit unfair to be competing against provincial sides or does the fact that the english and irish sides are reasonably able to compete with each other over-ride all of this. I suppose nothing else can really be done about it.

Apologies for once more resurrecting an old post, but this is a subject I feel strongly about. The European competition was/is supposed to be for clubs, not provinces. Why should the Irish be treated any differently to the rest? It's bang out of order in my humble opinion, giving them an unfair advantage.

[ellis9]

I'm was always interested to know what the english feel about this. Take Munster - Population of approx 1 million , Leinster Population over 2 Million and Ulster maybe 1.5 Million. 3 Provinces competing against Leicester - population of about 140,000 according to wikipedia and other small english cities of similar size like bath, gloucester , northampton etc. Do you guys feel this is a bit unfair to be competing against provincial sides or does the fact that the english and irish sides are reasonably able to compete with each other over-ride all of this. I suppose nothing else can really be done about it.

Apologies for once more resurrecting an old post, but this is a subject I feel strongly about. The European competition was/is supposed to be for clubs, not provinces. Why should the Irish be treated any differently to the rest? It's bang out of order in my humble opinion, giving them an unfair advantage.

What about the Welsh regions?

[longlivethecrumbie]

The challenge isn't around the size of the catchment or whether it's club vs region - it's more around the competition that they play in.

While the international players remain in the countries for which they represent (for the most part at least) the unions ensure that the regions look after the players so that they are fresh for European and international rugby. While there's the agreement between the RFU and the Premiership clubs around player welfare etc, the ability of coaches to select second string sides in the provincial competition with no real impact to them as they will, in the cases of Munster, Leinster, Edinburgh etc qualify for the Champions Cup anyway.


The need of English clubs to field as strong a side as possible week in, week out, is certainly more of an advantage to the provincial sides - IMHO of course.

[BFG]

Tigers academy catchment is massive, comprising of Nottinghamshire/Lincolnshire/Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Norfolk and of course Leicestershire.
It just isn't used as well as it could be with poor eyes and ideas for a potential top player and politics from bottom to top often ruining it, in my experienced opinion!

[Brutus]

Adding on to what westy154 was saying, I also live in Nottingham but support Tigers, mainly because Nottingham always steal our best players from the club I play for.

I live in Chesterfield, over 50 miles away and this is still very much Tigers country

[jgriffin]

I'll stick with what Donncha O'C said a couple of seasons ago - if the Pro14 sides had to compete in the Prem, they wouldn't last till Xmas.