Let me get this straight-the club develops loads of players. The supporters pay loads of money. We have to play through the internationals-the RFU put an extra one on and win a court case costing loads of money to force us to release our players. We play Worcester this week, and the PRL or somebody has said they mustn't release Horsmann to play for Wales...so he can play against our second team-which I've apparently agreed to watch for the next few weeks...only nobody bothered to ask me-again this year.
When Engurland played friendly footie a few weeks ago, all club games were suspended-doesn't seem like rocket science-ditch the play offs, stop Twickers wanting a bigger and bigger slice and let's only see the All Blacks once every couple of years so we keep the mystique. An All Black, Aussie or SA tour used to be a real occasion-now they're like number 17 buses-along every couple of hours, and familiarity breeds contempt and apathy. And I haven't mentioned injuries and player burn-out. Grumpy old man signing off for today
"one hand tied behind our backs"
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wing commander
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mightymouse
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MurphysLaw
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Hands Tied...
Spot on Winco!!
Couldn't arrange for something nasty to be dropped on the RFU HQ could you?
Couldn't arrange for something nasty to be dropped on the RFU HQ could you?
Re: Hands Tied...
Would the old furts even notice?MurphysLaw wrote:Spot on Winco!!
Couldn't arrange for something nasty to be dropped on the RFU HQ could you?
Kicks and scrums and ruck and roll.....Is all my brain and body need!
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Dave Angel
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Re: "one hand tied behind our backs"
Correct, except you are forgetting that...
...it was the clubs who voted in favour of playing through the Internationals
...it was the clubs who voted in favour of the playoffs
...it was PRL who took the RFU to court over the extra International (and lost). PRL could have saved that money if they hadn't gone to court.
...other lower league clubs (who rely heavily on the RFU for funding) often develop the players for Tigers co carry on developing. Player development doesn't start with the Premiership.
...it was the clubs who voted in favour of playing through the Internationals
...it was the clubs who voted in favour of the playoffs
...it was PRL who took the RFU to court over the extra International (and lost). PRL could have saved that money if they hadn't gone to court.
...other lower league clubs (who rely heavily on the RFU for funding) often develop the players for Tigers co carry on developing. Player development doesn't start with the Premiership.
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wellbutthatcouldbe
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Sorry for the long post, but I think why rugby plays on through internationals while football doesn't comes down to two reasons, neither of which has much to do with either the RFU or PRL.
One, football has a tradition of several decades standing of playing games on midweek evenings. Rugby doesn't. And judging by the number of complaints on here whenever Sky move games to Friday nights, not much hope of ever getting one.
Two, football is less physically intense than rugby. Therefore, a top footballer can play three games in eight days (Sat, Midweek, Sat) repeatedly; if a rugby player tried to they'd get injured fairly quickly. Taking two examples, Wayne Rooney played 7 games in October; Andy Goode played 3 (and came on in 2 others).
Therefore: football can play longer league programmes (38 games in football's Premiership), about the same number of internationals, without the two clashing. The ways rugby can achieve this are, IMO:
1. Scrap the play offs and Anglo-Welsh. Would free up the time and is by far the best solution, but as Dave Angel says, the clubs voted for the play offs and probably voted for the Anglo-Welsh as well? (I don't know)
2. Reduce the number of club games. Workable, but the clubs would lose revenue and if the reduction was achieved by reducing the size of the Premiership some clubs would really oppose it.
3. Reducing the number of international games. Again workable, but I can't really see the RFU doing it
4. Keeping the number of games the same, but playing some matches in midweek. Players' union and some supporters would probably stop that
5. Keeping the number of games the same, but extending the length of the season. Players' union wouldn't like it (justifiably)
One, football has a tradition of several decades standing of playing games on midweek evenings. Rugby doesn't. And judging by the number of complaints on here whenever Sky move games to Friday nights, not much hope of ever getting one.
Two, football is less physically intense than rugby. Therefore, a top footballer can play three games in eight days (Sat, Midweek, Sat) repeatedly; if a rugby player tried to they'd get injured fairly quickly. Taking two examples, Wayne Rooney played 7 games in October; Andy Goode played 3 (and came on in 2 others).
Therefore: football can play longer league programmes (38 games in football's Premiership), about the same number of internationals, without the two clashing. The ways rugby can achieve this are, IMO:
1. Scrap the play offs and Anglo-Welsh. Would free up the time and is by far the best solution, but as Dave Angel says, the clubs voted for the play offs and probably voted for the Anglo-Welsh as well? (I don't know)
2. Reduce the number of club games. Workable, but the clubs would lose revenue and if the reduction was achieved by reducing the size of the Premiership some clubs would really oppose it.
3. Reducing the number of international games. Again workable, but I can't really see the RFU doing it
4. Keeping the number of games the same, but playing some matches in midweek. Players' union and some supporters would probably stop that
5. Keeping the number of games the same, but extending the length of the season. Players' union wouldn't like it (justifiably)
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Dave Angel
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Wellbuthtatcouldbe,
Thank you for a very well considered & thought out reply and it makes a pleasant change to the usual knee-jerk replies & comments that other posters put on here at times regarding the club vs country debate!
You are right about the problems re midweek games, physical demands, the need for a decent close-season rest etc.
And on the subject of the Anglo-Welsh Cup, I reckon that if you polled the Premeirship chairmen on their views (and they could guarantee anonymity), most would rather keep the Anglo-Welsh Cup over other competitions as it brings in far more money than the Heineken Cup (around £1.1m guaranteed, per club, per season compared to around £600,000 for the HC).
Thank you for a very well considered & thought out reply and it makes a pleasant change to the usual knee-jerk replies & comments that other posters put on here at times regarding the club vs country debate!
You are right about the problems re midweek games, physical demands, the need for a decent close-season rest etc.
And on the subject of the Anglo-Welsh Cup, I reckon that if you polled the Premeirship chairmen on their views (and they could guarantee anonymity), most would rather keep the Anglo-Welsh Cup over other competitions as it brings in far more money than the Heineken Cup (around £1.1m guaranteed, per club, per season compared to around £600,000 for the HC).
Listen! I can GOM ANYONE! A cross between Victor Meldrew and Darren Garforth is a force to be reckoned with!
This is complete gentleman's dangly bits and needs dealing with!
My heart sinks every time an England team is announced. There was a time when I felt as proud as punch to see Tigers in ANY natioanle squad. Not now! All we are doing is robbing the team I love of the chance of success whilst attempting to float the sinking ship that is the national side.
Come on someone!!!!
SORT THIS MESS OUT! :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
This is complete gentleman's dangly bits and needs dealing with!
My heart sinks every time an England team is announced. There was a time when I felt as proud as punch to see Tigers in ANY natioanle squad. Not now! All we are doing is robbing the team I love of the chance of success whilst attempting to float the sinking ship that is the national side.
Come on someone!!!!
SORT THIS MESS OUT! :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
Simple answer Nik, because the clubs voted for it. (I might add though that Tigers didn't, but hey we live in a democracy!) The strikingly obvious answer IS to scrap the play offs and the Anglo Welsh, but that means less revenue for the clubs and the RFU. I'm afraid there is no win-win situation. We could moan all day that its what the fans want that is important but as fans we don't always see the bigger picture in that it is the revevue which keeps our still fragile professional sport running I'm afraid.
Unless anyone can think of a way that keeps the same revenue for the clubs, the same revenue for the RFU (who I'm sorry to say DO need money for the good of the game) and allows us to see our best players without the need for midweek games for every game we go to then I can't see a way forward. I'll throw that one to the floor...
Unless anyone can think of a way that keeps the same revenue for the clubs, the same revenue for the RFU (who I'm sorry to say DO need money for the good of the game) and allows us to see our best players without the need for midweek games for every game we go to then I can't see a way forward. I'll throw that one to the floor...
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EssexTiger
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Golden opportunity to complain, follow up the Mercury Article about RFU writing to all SHs and reply to it. Even if you are not a shareholder it is in the public domain now.
Similarly every shareholder should at least be acknowledging that letter and if feeling strong enough reply to it.
List is endless - playoffs, international weekends, over use of players, relegation, cost of tickets at HQ, foreign players, ................
No good us talkiing endlessly on here and not taking an opportunity like this!
Similarly every shareholder should at least be acknowledging that letter and if feeling strong enough reply to it.
List is endless - playoffs, international weekends, over use of players, relegation, cost of tickets at HQ, foreign players, ................
No good us talkiing endlessly on here and not taking an opportunity like this!
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wing commander
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Still grumpy this morning!
Agree that quite often turkeys vote for Christmas, but that doesn't make it clever.
In addition, I read this morning that while our reserves are playing Worcester firsts, our first team is playing the All Black reserves...marvellous.
Can't remember if I moaned about this yesterday, sorry if I did, but the other problem is that historically 1/2 our squad come back injured from England, Scottish, Welsh and/or Irish duty, so we lose them until the New Year, they play one game and then its the 6 Nations, spread over 18 or 19 weeks or whatever (played at Tuesday teatime for television)...rant rant rant ....Sorry, knocking at door, men in white coats coming in.....
Agree that quite often turkeys vote for Christmas, but that doesn't make it clever.
In addition, I read this morning that while our reserves are playing Worcester firsts, our first team is playing the All Black reserves...marvellous.
Can't remember if I moaned about this yesterday, sorry if I did, but the other problem is that historically 1/2 our squad come back injured from England, Scottish, Welsh and/or Irish duty, so we lose them until the New Year, they play one game and then its the 6 Nations, spread over 18 or 19 weeks or whatever (played at Tuesday teatime for television)...rant rant rant ....Sorry, knocking at door, men in white coats coming in.....