Johnny Murphy

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:16 am

Johnny had an absolute brilliant match against Munster, would you agree?

Then why was he dropped in favour of Varndell? I don't think Tom added to the team at all against Cardiff, your views please or has this already been covered?

GeddingtonTiger · Post by **GeddingtonTiger** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:20 am

Varndell did score a try. But J Murphy has been on much better form and therefore you do have to start question some of Pat Howards team selection with the goode selection against Munster and the contiuous selection Deacon when Jennings is a much better flanker.

Chobbsy · Post by **Chobbsy** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:27 am

GeddingtonTiger wrote:Varndell did score a try. But J Murphy has been on much better form and therefore you do have to start question some of Pat Howards team selection with the goode selection against Munster and the contiuous selection Deacon when Jennings is a much better flanker.

I would like to see Jonny get a shot at 10, have to agree, Shane Jennings was the man to partner Lewis on Sunday, but then Louis is a reason why we win so much line out ball.

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:53 am

Chobbsy valid points, but can we really afford to let Murphy have a 'shot' at No 10, the points for every match we are playing are crucial.

The No 10 debate will go on and on until the Club realise that they are going to have to put their hands in their pockets and pay the going rate for a 'QUALITY TOP CLASS' No 10, we haven't got that at present and we are investing too much time, effort and money in trying to push Goodey in that direction, he's either got it or he hasn't - his kicking is as consistantly good and bad as a premiership referee's performance and that at times is shocking!!

And just one last thing on the No 10 debate people on this forum go on and on about Burke being Munster's 3rd choice well hate to point out the obvious guys but Humphries is our 3rd choice.

Going back to Johnny he was absolutely outstanding on the wing last week and now it's Tom V's turn to come under pressure ....... he was a raising star for the last couple of seasons and the rest of the prem have now got his number, they know he runs in straight lines whereas Johnny looks more versatile, he creates more play and he goes in and TACKLES the opposition.

In the current climate I'd select Johnny over Tom, he deserves his place in the starting 15.

Chobbsy · Post by **Chobbsy** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:58 am

Nik wrote:Chobbsy valid points, but can we really afford to let Murphy have a 'shot' at No 10, the points for every match we are playing are crucial.

The No 10 debate will go on and on until the Club realise that they are going to have to put their hands in their pockets and pay the going rate for a 'QUALITY TOP CLASS' No 10, we haven't got that at present and we are investing too much time, effort and money in trying to push Goodey in that direction, he's either got it or he hasn't - his kicking is as consistantly good and bad as a premiership referee's performance and that at times is shocking!!

And just one last thing on the No 10 debate people on this forum go on and on about Burke being Munster's 3rd choice well hate to point out the obvious guys but Humphries is our 3rd choice.

Going back to Johnny he was absolutely outstanding on the wing last week and now it's Tom V's turn to come under pressure ....... he was a raising star for the last couple of seasons and the rest of the prem have now got his number, they know he runs in straight lines whereas Johnny looks more versatile, he creates more play and he goes in and TACKLES the opposition.

In the current climate I'd select Johnny over Tom, he deserves his place in the starting 15.

Accepted, we don't have the luxury of any "easy" games to let Johnny have a shot at 10.

I also agree that he does not have the speed of TV, but what he does have that TV can't even dream of at the moment is a great defence both in the tackle and under the high ball, I rate him above Sam Vesty at fullback, but Sam has NEVER let us down at FB so deserves to keep his place.

Dave W · Post by **Dave W** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:12 pm

Good points Nik, I think TV let everybody down on Sunday and in a high profile match like that, he needed to keep his head - his actions could've cost us the game. But in his defence also, he is an awesome work in progress and I think will become, in time, one of the best wingers we have seen for a long time. My initial worry is that players may have already worked him out and I will try and explain. Take robinson and garvey, they both have electric pace but in my opinion, are both very predictable and again, imo, easy to tackle or close down. Pace is an awesome asset to have but you need other areas of the game to truly make it count and hopefully TV can improve in his weakness areas. Therefore I would go with Murphy instead of Tom at this time - make sense?

salcombe bob · Post by **salcombe bob** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:25 pm

my concern on Sunday was that we never seemed to look like making a real break through the backs, we didn't seem incisive at all. Whether that stems from 10 i don't know.

stevetelcom2000 · Post by **stevetelcom2000** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:29 pm

salcombe bob wrote:my concern on Sunday was that we never seemed to look like making a real break through the backs, we didn't seem incisive at all. Whether that stems from 10 i don't know.

The continuous changing of 9 & 10 must ultimately lead to a lack of cohesion between the forwards & backs, who as a single unit are very strong.

iceman_19 · Post by **iceman_19** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:37 pm

Woah, whats all the TV bashing about? Yeah he got sinbinned for a silly mistake, but heck he'll learn from that. He took his try very well and I saw him actually pull off a couple of decent tackles, as well as taking the contact on occassion and retaining the ball well. Apart from the sinbinning, I thought he had a solid game.

Have to say I thought Vesty was very average. He offered nothing in attack and was nowhere to be seen for the first try. Yes he got a drop goal but thats all I can think he contributed.

The problem about playing Jonny Murphy unfortunately falls back down on the 'why are we playing Geordan on the wing' argument. I think a back 3 of Murphy, Varndell and Murphy would be very dangerous. But as long as Pat persists in playing Murphy out of position, we will continue to see Jonny struggling for a place.

voice of the crumbie · Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:47 pm

TV is suffering from the fact that he has been pushed too far too quickly.

He has pace to burn but lacks experience and, on the evidence of those games where he has not had the necessary space to operate in, lacks some of the basic skills of a professional Rugby player - the ability to tackle, throw an accurate pass for example. Also his lack of experience has caused him to put teammates under pressure. He often throws a wild pass when he should take the tackle and set up possession from ensuing ruck. He has shown he has the strength for this and at at his size and weight should be able to do so.

If he does not hone the basic skills he will be at best an impact player or a player to use against those teams where you can get a bit more space outside. In other words teams perceived as being significantly weaker or those who operate the rush defence which often allows more space out wide. This is one reason why he was so successful against Wasps last couple of seasons.

On the evidence of both senior and development games Johne Murphy runs better lines and can tackle. Not sure if he's a no 10 though. I don't want to enter the Goode debate as I am not a fan and therefore biased.

Tryger · Post by **Tryger** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:56 pm

TV should have gone nearer the posts as well - why dive over the line with noboby around those two points could have made a difference - lack of expericen I would say

iceman_19 · Post by **iceman_19** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:41 pm

I remember Smith did the same thing about 4 seasons ago against Stade, he dived over rather than thinking about getting closer. I thought Varndell made some good tackles on Sunday!

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:00 pm

iceman this isn't TV bashing at all, this is a good solid debate and there are some good points being made for both sides here. I've really enjoyed reading them.

Dave, definitely makes sense.

With the AI's looming and us being stretched to the limit for selection it's going to be interesting to see who is selected for the weekend's battle against Wuss, they are really up for this and to be honest with you if we sit back they'll win.

iceman_19 · Post by **iceman_19** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:17 pm

I didn't mean TV bashing as in slagging him off, I meant criticism (fair criticism) of his performance on Sunday...where I happened to think that he was alright (apart from the sinbinning) and cant think of many reasons why people think he played badly!

Ollie smith rules · Post by **Ollie smith rules** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:21 pm

Yes but his generall handling isn't that great either. Even when he was at Bedford he didn't stand out as anything special. He needs to go back to absics on a few areas and once they are sorted out he will be a much better and solid palyer.

Leicester Tigers

Johnny Murphy

Johnny Murphy

Tom Varndell