Views required please from those who know their rugby !

Dexta · Post by **Dexta** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:48 pm

I'm a season ticket holder who doesn't pretend to know all the ins and outs of tactics but I would be interested to hear people's views on something that has struck me so far this season.

Opposition defences, particularly Glaws seem to do quite well against the attacks of our threequarters. Even Paddy said 'they made it difficult for us'.

I'm not particularly on a Goodey bashing exercise here but it strikes me that he very rarely (if ever) tries to step inside and make a break but has his short pass or long miss pass.

If the opposition know that he's never going to try to break the line, does it allow their defence to drift confidently across without worrying about such a break ? Does this make it easier to defend against our attack?

I've seen Ian Humphries do it for development team etc, but is it a fundamental weakness that Goodey never threatens in this way?
Or am I missing something?

Tryger · Post by **Tryger** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:11 pm

I agree - Goode does have his good points, defence and obvioulsy goal kicking, but to win games you need to attack and get behind the opposition's back line - to do this an inside break is very effecitve as is a little grubber kick particularly when the oppostion are coming up quick.

Long passes do not work when they are telegraphed as the centres just get man and ball, and you can always tell when Goode is about to launch a long pas.

kuzza · Post by **kuzza** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:13 pm

Personally, I think it's all about speed.

The ball goes from 9 to 10. 10 doesn't really have the ability to open up a defence, so passes out to 12. The ball then has passed through three pairs of hands before anything creative other than running in a straight line is done. In essence, it's not so much that people ignore Goode and rush 12, they just go up as a line and noothing pulls them out of it.

Australia, under Gregan, run off 9. The Kiwis run off 10. At Leicester we run off 12. The handful of times I've seen Goode try and run at a defence, he's been wrapped up.

Chobbsy · Post by **Chobbsy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:18 pm

I am not an Andy Goode fan, I am one of the people who has been going for years about getting a world class 10, but I do believe Andy has a rugby brain, I think he does very often see the gap and tries to exploit it, unfortunately he does not have the acceleration to get through the gap, or if he does he is caught from behind, I think if he had some gas he would be a great line breaker, UNFORTUNATELY for us he doesn't have the speed.

I agree that on Saturday Glocester were up on us fast and flat and we did try to "BASH" our way through and only once to what I remember did he put in a chip or grubber which would have turned their defence.

I thought a lot of the players had great games, (especially Sam Vesty who was my man of the match) but it was still a poor performance from us.

Tom_Naz the Tiger · Post by **Tom_Naz the Tiger** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:47 pm

One of the only times i remember Goode going alone instead of the pass was in the last minute of last years HC QF against Bath.

Elected not to use the three man overlap but instead go straight into contact!

One of the problems i noticed on Saturday (and I think its been going on a while) is that no body seems to run onto the ball.

Personnally, i see this as basic tho fundamental in breaking through the game line, and i know it was drummed into me when i played at school and im a forward!

So why cant we (in particular centres it seems) do this?!

Phil B · Post by **Phil B** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:48 pm

Dexta, I think you make some very valid points. Breaks by three quarters in the Tigers team are as rare as hen's teeth. More likely to see a break from George Chuter.

Bruce Hornby-Trainset · Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:57 pm

Don't knock George - he has developed real pace for a hooker and is well capable of making a lot of ground with ball in hand. So we'll lose him come the Internationals!

Dexta · Post by **Dexta** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:04 pm

Now you come to mention it, I think I have seen George make more breaks than Goodey !
Thanks for the comments guys .... I may not be a rugby thicko after all !

nursy · Post by **nursy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:42 pm

goody barely breaks a sweat let alone defences. He stands to flat and relies on a dodgy miss pass. As for defence he should be a threat but too often ushers the attack through. He should have more confidence in the ability to run at the defence he's not a small lad and could offer so much more if he put his back into it. as for the chip to break defence STOP IT 5yards out on saturday and they ran the full length to score.
Give Vesty or humphries a shot with Rabini and Gibson.

runnerbean · Post by **runnerbean** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:50 pm

no competant team should drift confidently without the ballbeing passed, should goodey ever attempt a dummy pass( big if there) and had his wits about him, he could quite easily exploit a defence,which was drifting before he threw the ballm, with the likes of varndell e.t.c

Dexta · Post by **Dexta** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:56 pm

My point exactly runnerbean .... what's the chances of him doing that ! ...and the opposition know it !

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:32 pm

I wince when Goode tries to make a break as he gets comprehensively wrapped up every time.

Should he lose his place because of that?

A matter of opinion. But my opinion is definitely not because of the rest of his game.

kuzza · Post by **kuzza** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:03 pm

Before this becomes an all-out daggers at Goode thread, I would like to try and drag it back to the fact that technical reasons were asked for.

Goode may not be super-quick, but he does always get the ball standing still rather than at speed. The two questions this raises are:

Is he incapable of running and catching the ball?

Is he uncertain of the quality of delivery?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if we question the fly-hlaf's speed andd ability, then we must also question the quality of ball he's getting.

runnerbean · Post by **runnerbean** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:35 pm

daxta you misunderstood what i was trying to say, in the game of rugby you can only tackle the person with the ball( as oyu probably know) hence the defensive line will noyl follow the person with the ball .If goode passes theyline drifts to that, if he were to dummy they would maybe be slow at reactiing and he could break.
kuzza, i like goode, he is a central figure to the leicester game, when goode gets taken off the team goes to the S***S. The running and catching is all about where the pass comes from, if he always takes ball at standing rather than run, maybe he should drop back and the SH pass infront of him. BUT this would change his game. He is almost horizontal to the SH and it allows him to feed his centres/kick e.t.c
i do feel sorry for goodey though sometimes as because he is at #10 he is always in the game so if something goes wrong then he is ( most of the time) seen to be at fault. What he needs is some training on pressure. When he kicks under pressure he isnt the greatest, and generally snaps at the ball too much, If he could correct that then he could become a great player.

adamv6 · Post by **adamv6** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:28 pm

I think Goodeys flaws are really emphasized by not having Harry at 9 or Gibson at 12.

Goodey is obviously aware of his flaws and plays to his strengths instead. As my mate keeps pointing out to me, Goodey seems to run better lines from 15 than 10.

When he plays with Ellis and Gibbo and Ollie, he has more options available for attacking different channels. Gibbo runs 'harder' lines than any other IC we have, which in turn fixes the opposition defence. Ollie runs amazing decoy lines which spread the centres or pulls the fullback out of position. Harry gives him genuine firepower on his inside shoulder.

Goodey has his flaws, yes, but they are even more exposed without genuine world class players on his shoulders!