Number of Tigers that will be missing during Internationals

[simon redshaw]

I make it there will be anything up to 12 missing during the Autumn Internationals, and up to 16 missing during the Six nations Period, with Matt Cornwell in the Under 21s, Ollie and Sam in the Saxons, and Shane in the Ireland A.

Or would you anticipate any more? I would think Alex will be available all this season.

[simon redshaw]

More importantly, how many of those do you realistically see being actually unavailable?

For instance, I have doubts whether Tom will play at all for England before next summer.

[Pellsey]

By Alex, do you mean Moreno or Tuilagi. I think both should be available all season (with hopfully no injuries!)

At least the U21s and the Saxons do not play too many games!

Realistically... G. Murphy, Varndell, Ellis, Goode, White (maybe?!), Chuter, Moody, Corry, Castrogiovanni, Cornwell, Vesty, O Smith and Jennings. That makes 12-13. !! I don't think Kay or L Deacon will be called up, but you never know.

[Pellsey]

I don't think even OBNSG is stupid enough not to play Varndell. But then again... That's only my humble opinion! I would personally play JSD and Tom for pretty much every game with Cueto coming in sometimes to relieve one of them.

[simon redshaw]

Apologies to Alex Moreno. Forgot him! :oops: :oops: I agree with you that hopefully both Alex's will be available for all the season. We will really need them both. We will also have Marcos Ayerza as cover.

Also to Castro. I had forgotten him.

I actually think OBSNG will pick Cueto over Tom anyway if JSD is fit. However, if OBSNG does pick Tom at some stage why doesn't he name him in the Elite squad from the start? I can't understand what OBSNG's thinking is on that count. Mind you who does anyway?

[MJ Chairman]

Looking at it realistically, rather than just who is qualified, throughout the whole season, in the backs i think we could only be missing Harry and Geordan. If wilkinson Barkly and Hodgson are all fit I can`t see Goodey getting in ahead of them. Niether Smith or Vesty are in the announced squads and certainly Ollie needs to be showing some good early season form to get into even the Saxons. Sorry forgot about Varndell who Ashton rates so I think he will get plenty of game time.
Up front is harder. Certainly for England White, Chuter, Kay,Deacon, Moody, Corry, for Italy, Catrogiavanni, Ireland at some level, Jennings, Cullen, and possibly Hickie the new Hooker. For the Saxons Cabbage did well during the summer and Bemand must be in with a shout.
Under 21`s although Tom Croft may have another year left I think Matt Cornwall may now be too old.Also don`t forget Jordan Crane he is a certainty for the 21s and some of the magazines feel he is good enough to force his way into the RWC2007 squad if given enough game time.

[Mountsorrel Tiger]

Ok, Corry, Moody, White and Ellis will probably play for England, Kay may be involved. Murphy will obviously play for Ireland and Castrogiovanni for Italy. The Saxons don't play when there are Premiership matches so they can use as many players as they like really. Crane and Croft for U21's. No need for worries!!!!

[Pellsey]

Hi Mountsorrel Tiger. Good point... However, you are still predicting a maximum of 11 players away at one time, which still isn't great, especially as they are our best players. If the Saxons (I assume you are including Vesty and Ollie) don't play at the same time as Premiership games, that's a good thing. However, I can see them clashing with the Heineken or the EDF (!! ha ha).

But for any first team game, IE 6Ns, we will probably lose at least, Castrogiovanni, G. Murphy, Ellis, Moody, Corry, Chuter (he played very well in Australia), with the possibility of Varndell, Goode (Hopefully not now Wilko is looking better for England's and Tigers' sake... that said, I'm still not convinced that he will play for England again. I really hope so though. I thought he was fantastic in the Lions last year. INHO), Key, White and Deacon. That's 6-9 players at the very least for the whole 6Ns.

I love and respect your optimism, Mountsorrel Tiger, but the situation really isn't THAT great... OK on a positive note then...

As cover for when the 6Ns are being played,

Vesty for G. Murphy - very good replacement
Alex T or Seru for Varndell - also not bad!!
Castrogiovanni, White - we have a good number of excellent props. Rowntree can play a few more, Then Ayerza, Moreno etc...
Goode would be a problem, but it hopefully won't happen.
Ellis - Bemand.. no real loss there ;)
Chuter - Buckland needs experience anyway and is a damn good player as is Hickie. Not forgetting and up and coming Holford. ;)
Key and Deacon - Cullen - a very solid player, Hamilton - he needs experience. Not forgetting Tom Croft who also needs experience anyway!
Corry - easy Crane. A very good thing ;)
Moody, Tuilagi or B Deacon... very good replacements ;)

Overall the 6Ns are annoying, but Tigers do have some good strength in depth. Let's hope we have no serious injuries. I'm pretty optimistic though.

[simon redshaw]

Morning Pellsey,

You have forgotten in your last post about the Under 21s being played during the 6 Ns period.

Therefore, out of your reckoning, the following at the minimum may also be unavailable:

Tom Croft
Possibly Matt Cornwell

I hadn't realised the Saxons games were being changed to a different date. Otherwise we would have lost Sam Vesty, Ollie Smith?, James Buckland (Cabbage), Scott Bemand, Shane Jennings and Gavin Hickie to those games too.

Now have I left anyone out this time?!

[simon redshaw]

I wondered even if Big Jim might get a game for either England or Scotland at some level?

It is possible that we may lose a full 22 to internationals at some stage before injuries. Shows how much we get stretched during those periods. There may be a need if the present internationals situation continues for Tigers at some stage if not to have more players on the books to have more overseas signings.

This raises a question about cover for these periods.

1) Would Tigers be able to use their links with Natal Sharks, Bedford and Nottingham to call in players if needed for a short time to cover for so many absencees during the international peiods.

[Pellsey]

Hi Simon,

Assuming Gibbo's fit, Maatt Cornwell and Tom Croft shouldn't be big losses. But I see your point. ;) I didn't exactly miss them, I just didn't mention them :D

Interesting what you said about Natal Sharks. It's about time they lent us some players :D

[Pellsey]

As with Big Jim.. I'm sure he will sometime. I can't see it this season though. I think he needs some first team experience first.

[simon redshaw]

Fair point. Needs more games. He did well for us last season when he played in the first team and did well for the Development Team too.

Do you know if Jim has settled on which country he would like to play for?

[Tigers Tiger]

What you have to remember is not only do we miss the players picked to start, but also those on the bench, and it is very difficult to pick those who have trained all week with England or other nations and then return to Tigers on the Friday before the match and so have no knowledge of tactics etc... and so can't be picked either !!!

[Mountsorrel Tiger]

Can't see Goode being in the 22 as Barkley will be there and probably Farrell (didn't say I agreed with it)!

team for international weekends:
1. Rowntree
2. Buckland
3. Holford/Ayzera
4. Hamilton
5. Nimmo/Cullen/Croft
6. Deacon
7. Abraham
8. Henry
9. Scott
10. Goode
11. Alex
12. Gibson
13. Smith
14. Seru
15. Vesty

Don't think thats a bad team at all really!