Number of Tigers that will be missing during Internationals

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4071
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Post by 4071 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:09 pm

Are you guys forgetting Grewcock, Borthwick and Jones? I would expect to lose only one of Kay or Louis for the 6N with those three in the mix, too. I suspect that the Bath pair are likely starters (Ashton worked well with them when he was there) and Jones stood out in Australia.

With Vickery returning there is a very real chance that we could keep White. He was pretty poor against the average Aussie front row and isn’t much cop elsewhere on the field. Payne is able to play both sides of the scrum and in Stevens’ absence will make up the 22.

Saxons games do not clash with any Tiger fixtures.

Likely side for the 6N period, where we miss full and age grade internationals

Rowntree / Ayerza
Buckland / Hickie (overlooked by Ireland when he was over there, so will be again)
Moreno / White
Deacon / Kay
Cullen (see Hickie – they also have an abundance of locks in Ireland)
B.Deacon
Jennings (with Wallace, O’Connor and Gleeson he’ll be lucky to get picked)
H.Tuilagi

Bemand
Goode (Come on… Charlie, Olly AND Jonny?) or Burke
Lloyd (Surely Tom will get called up)
Gibson
Hipkiss / Cornwell
A.Tuilagi
Vesty


Better than a lot of starting XVs for some clubs....

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Post by dailywaffle » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:58 pm

4071 wrote:Are you guys forgetting Grewcock, Borthwick and Jones? I would expect to lose only one of Kay or Louis for the 6N with those three in the mix, too. I suspect that the Bath pair are likely starters (Ashton worked well with them when he was there) and Jones stood out in Australia.

With Vickery returning there is a very real chance that we could keep White. He was pretty poor against the average Aussie front row and isn’t much cop elsewhere on the field. Payne is able to play both sides of the scrum and in Stevens’ absence will make up the 22.
Wasps are hoping to get Vickery back in October at the earliest, so can't really see Phil getting much England action this side of the 6 Nations. In which case, whilst I agree with your analysis of White's form we may well still lose him.

Completely agree about the locks - I had thought it more likely that only one of Kay / Deacon would make the squad.

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Post by Pellsey » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:59 am

Mountsorrel Tiger.... I think you missed Jennings? I'm not sure he will get picked for Ireland. They have a very very good number 7 - Wallace. At least, I hope we don't lose him. As I've said before, the Irish coach prefers to pick players playing in Ireland.

I also agree with Dailywaffle. IHMO, we will lose White. I thought he murdered the Aussie front row. I agree though, he's not much cop when he's not in the scrum or in rooks and mauls. However... Vickery.. He will probably come back for a week and then get injured again. He's just too injury prone.

I think though with OBNSG's tendency to pick world cup winners, I think Key will be picked over Deacon. So I agree... we will only lose one.

I also think Moreno will be played a lot this season. I was very impressed with how he played last season and especially his temperament.

4071, what about Seru? I wouldn't be surprised if he played on the wing with Lloyd at centre.

Actually looking at the backs, there is going to be some serious competition going on, especially if Hipkiss learns to be more of a distributor (IE less selfish!!).

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Post by rugbypundit » Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:10 pm

Just a note ! it was posted on the WRU website two months ago that the under 21's will be changed this season to an under 20 side for the home six nations, nothing was posted about the under 21's rugby world cup which is IRB run, but the only players available for under 20 duty will be academy players.
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Post by mrsmoody » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:44 pm

and next season cornwall wont be eligable for under 21's and he will be 22 at some point...
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Post by Bill W » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:08 pm

Cornwall has not been named in ant of the RFU squads.

Thus quarranteeing he will be selected for several teams!!

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Post by johns » Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:42 am

Cornwall is now to old for the under 21's, as he was the under 21's captrain for 2 years you would think that with Englands forward thinking Head Coach he would have been in the Saxons set up, thus grooming him for the future.

But the we have Robinfool as head coach so there will be no looking to the future then will there. :roll:

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Post by Bill W » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:15 am

Just so. With OBNSG in charge the most umlikely will happen!!

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Post by Mountsorrel Tiger » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:18 pm

couple of points -

Pellsey, I deliberately left Jennings out on the basis that the majority of those up for international selection will get picked. Jennings deserves a chance in the Ireland team, but to have a back row of Deacon (B), Henry and Abraham isn't really much of a problem!

Actually the 2nd row worries me slightly, as Kay and Deacon are in the squad for England, Leo is aound the Irish squad and Jim Hamilton has been sounded out for Scotland! Undoubtedly now I've said that, all four will be overlooked, and we'll have stiff competition all year round!

Bill, I've been trying to figure out why Cornwall has been ommitted from the Senior academy, and my best guess is that he has had little first team rugby, and is not an U21 any more. Whilst he seems to be rated by England, perhaps they are waiting to see whether he can establish himself in the Tigers team on a regular basis. The squad is reassessed at Christmas (read replacements added when Farrell, Wilkinson and Vickery get injured) so if Matt has a good first half of the season, he could force his way in there!

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Post by 4071 » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:46 pm

Pellsy,

I was going to mention Seru as first choice at 12, 13, 11, 14, or 15 depending on players available. But I forgot by the time I got to the end of the list.


Mountsorrel,

QUOTE - I've been trying to figure out why Cornwall has been ommitted from the Senior academy, and my best guess is that he has had little first team rugby, and is not an U21 any more. - QUOTE

I read an interview with Brian Ashton after he went to Bath, and he said that one of the reasons he left the Academy was that too oftn players were left to drift after they left the U-21s. They had come through the age grade systems and were beginning to peak, and then they were no longer eligible for the U-21s and the Academy coaches no longer had any contact with them until they joined the full international set-up, often years later... if at all. He felt it wa a very frustrating waste of several years of development after the age of 22 when a lot of players could be working towards the systems used by the full international side and being conditioned together and retaining familiarity with each other instead of being dumped back with their clubs until they got picked up by the full squad.

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Post by Mountsorrel Tiger » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:40 pm

You're spot on, as is Ashton. I don't see why they have the Senior Academy limited to 15 players when some of them are 25 (Barnard). Obviously the clubs wouldn't like more players disappearing on training days, but you could have say 20-30 players named in the Senior National Academy, and then they train with the full squad unless they are going to get played the following weekend, so they are always being challenged in one way or another.

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Post by Bill W » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:54 pm

Mountsorrel Tiger wrote:couple of points -


Bill, I've been trying to figure out why Cornwall has been ommitted from the Senior academy, and my best guess is that he has had little first team rugby, and is not an U21 any more. Whilst he seems to be rated by England, perhaps they are waiting to see whether he can establish himself in the Tigers team on a regular basis. The squad is reassessed at Christmas (read replacements added when Farrell, Wilkinson and Vickery get injured) so if Matt has a good first half of the season, he could force his way in there!
Is down to OBNSG's whim. And with the politics of eight international games who knows what could happen.

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Post by vinniechan » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:22 am

Look at the bk row of sale (possibly best combo in any team in the world)...
they will hv an even bigger problem than us during internationals :twisted:

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