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Pellsey
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Post by Pellsey » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:26 am

I think for the future too, IMHO I think Tigers will have some home grown absolute greats.. players like Matt Cornwell, Tom Varndell, Tom Croft etc... Why do we need to buy them, when we already have them!!

I'm not a fan of buying "Hollywood" rugby players like Spencer, whose price tag relates to his name rather than his ability. This maybe pulls in the crowds (which at Welford road is not a problem), but doesn't help to win games.

k1
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Post by k1 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:31 am

If you raise the salary cap then players will just ask for more money. A player wouldn't setlle for, say, £100k a year if he knew the club could afford £120k. The top players would still be as difficult to get hold of.

It's always interesting to see how transfers will work out. I expect most people are expecting Chris Bell to be the wonder boy next season, but there's every chance he might flop and barely make the team. Likewise, an unheard of might take the game by storm. I think the best signing of last season was Jennings and he wasn't too well known before he came here.

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Post by JB » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:39 am

I agree we should focus on our home grown players, but they should be sprinkled with some outside quality.

Remember when Wig, Cockers, Garf, Johnno, Backy Deano, Wells etc were joined by Corry, Healy, Stransky, Greenwood, Howard etc. they were good players who added to the team.

We have a cracking bunch of young players who I am sure will become great tigers players, but it would be nice to see some good players join the team. And by good players who are not good enough to play for there Irish Province!
JB, Stamford

Pellsey
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Post by Pellsey » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:19 pm

JB, I agree with that... But Castrogiovanni, Crane and Ayerza are good players and can become great players (I don't know about Ayerza, but if Cockers says so, I'm not going to argue!!) . They will definately bolster our scrum. As for backs, we already have 4 very good centres, 3 fly halves (maybe only Goode is any good, but we may be surprised by Paul Burke or Humphries, just like with Cullin and Jennings last season). Wingers... Varndell, Seru (hopefully), Tuilagi, and Magician Murphy. Not bad at all. Full backs... Magician Murphy and Vesty. Not bad either.... I nearly forgot scrum halves... 2 England scrum halves and a very well rated one from the European champions. ;) Then also you have to look at players available for transfer. I'm not convinced that any players that have become available would even make our bench, apart from Abbott, who is going to be paid a lot of money by Quins. I can see Cornwell being as good if not better than Abbott in the future anyway...

Jess
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Post by Jess » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:31 pm

Pellsey wrote:I think for the future too, IMHO I think Tigers will have some home grown absolute greats.. players like Matt Cornwell, Tom Varndell, Tom Croft etc... Why do we need to buy them, when we already have them!!

I'm not a fan of buying "Hollywood" rugby players like Spencer, whose price tag relates to his name rather than his ability. This maybe pulls in the crowds (which at Welford road is not a problem), but doesn't help to win games.
I disagree with you Pellsey. Whatever money we payed for Carlos was totally worth it, he has been fantastic. We have one of the best backlines in the premiership, and Carlos has brought out the best in it. Anyone who saw the saints v sarries game last season would totally understand. he was awesome and was most of the season. Undoubtldy he helped us win games. and at Franklin's Gardens we already had the crowds anyway.
Donncha O'Callaghan and Bruce Reihana are the best players that ever lived. Don't even bother to argue with me.

And - however good Imanol Harinordoquy is, he is still an idiot

k1
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Post by k1 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:55 pm

Jess wrote:
Pellsey wrote:I think for the future too, IMHO I think Tigers will have some home grown absolute greats.. players like Matt Cornwell, Tom Varndell, Tom Croft etc... Why do we need to buy them, when we already have them!!

I'm not a fan of buying "Hollywood" rugby players like Spencer, whose price tag relates to his name rather than his ability. This maybe pulls in the crowds (which at Welford road is not a problem), but doesn't help to win games.
I disagree with you Pellsey. Whatever money we payed for Carlos was totally worth it, he has been fantastic. We have one of the best backlines in the premiership, and Carlos has brought out the best in it. Anyone who saw the saints v sarries game last season would totally understand. he was awesome and was most of the season. Undoubtldy he helped us win games. and at Franklin's Gardens we already had the crowds anyway.
I disagree aswell. Spencer was fantastic last season. Furthermore, IMO Ellis and Moody get more games than they deserve (ie: there are other players in better form) because they put bums on seats.

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Post by simon redshaw » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:56 pm

Well done Jess, that's the point I have been trying to make unsuccessfully. :wink: Only, we aren't supposed to buy players like that at Tigers because they are too costly, or we have players coming through the ranks etc.etc. We aren't supposed to open the chequebook out for players like that but only to nurture players along. And so though we once did get the odd one, we will never get players like that in the future at Welford Road! :wink:

Like Yorkshire weren't supposed to sign overseas players in the cricket or even ones born outside of Godsown's county! :wink:

Sorry for the heavy sarcasm there!

Pellsey
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Post by Pellsey » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:01 pm

Sorry, I'm still not convinced by Spencer as being worth the money. I would definately admit he can be a serious magician and does some absolutely amazing stuff. But on the other hand, he can make the most simple mistakes and it is sometimes painful to watch. I wouldn't feel at ease with that risk.

I would say it's a lot to do with the salary cap. Tiger's have a lot of very good players and can't afford one wonder boy.

But then Tigers did better than Saints last season with the team they had....

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Post by Pellsey » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:02 pm

What you might mean, is that Tigers would benefit from a playmaker... which I would agree, we currently don't really have.

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Post by Pellsey » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:11 am

Jess, I'm sorry if I've showed my ignorance on Spencer. I'm sure I've not seen him play as often as you. I have seen him play quite a bit though. Maybe I've noticed the bad side of him rather than the good side. I just don't think that he would make the same difference at Tigers as he has made at saints. Seriously, no disrespect ;)

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Post by simon redshaw » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:30 am

In my sarcasm Pellsey (apologies for that) I was trying to suggest too that Tigers won't go out to buy the sort of player Jess was alluding to in Carlos Spencer. I can understand what your depiction of him as being inconsistent at times and not making the same difference at Tigers as at Saints. Nevertheless he is a good team man and has committed himself to staying in England for a while and will serve Saints well. If anything I think he will be better this season then last.

Pellsey
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Post by Pellsey » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:41 am

I totally agree Simon! I can see Spencer getting better for Saints. I think the SH and NHs play different styles of rugby and I think over time Spencer will get used to the playing in the Premiership and will make more and more of a difference. He's still inconsistant though ;)

I'm overall happy with the players Tigers have and IMHO I'm sure that the reason we didn't win anything last season is more a mental problem that to do with their game. I personally don't completely understand how, if you look at the fully fit Tigers squad, anybody could really complain too much! It's pretty damn good, IMHO!

simon redshaw
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Post by simon redshaw » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:49 am

Good assessment of Spencer's NH future, Pellsey.

I agree there is a mental problem with Tigers game particularly in the key games. I have wondered whether some sort of Sports Physchologist would help. I have mentioned it a bit before. It may sound daft to some but some sportspeople use them and I believe it could help. What do you think is needed?

In any case, someone is needed to get at the root of why and how the players are failing in the big games and how they get over that.

Pellsey
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Post by Pellsey » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:59 am

Sports psychologist... HA HA :D

I hate this new fangled psychology thing :D Seriously though mate, I do think that may make a difference... especially for the non psychology cynics ;) In the olden days (pre Woodward), those things were left to the coach :D

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