Prem Ins and Outs

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:07 pm

This Sean Hohneck sounds very interesting with that write up! I don't know that much about him although I did a Super 14 Fantasy competition this year! :oops: :oops: One to look out for!

Where does he play?

Dave Angel · Post by **Dave Angel** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:15 pm

simon redshaw wrote:His track record shows that you need to be prepared to gamble on a player rather then just stick to tried and maybe trusted has beens.

Something a club like Tigers could take note of. If only we had an equivalent of Wenger at Tigers!

Simon, are you seriously suggesting that Tigers have a habit of signing hasbeens and not signing players who are "unknown"?!?

Jennings, Bemand, Cullen, Moreno, Varndell, Rabeni etc. How many of them were genuinely "well known" or "has-beens" before we signed them? All were potentially big gambles!

What about overseas gambles from a few years ago like Pat Howard (as a player), Freddie Tuilagi or Jaco? None were big names by any means when they signed for Tigers!

Tigers do gamble on signings, possibly more so than any other Premiership club in fact! As a club we never seem to chase the big-money signing, sticking instead to under-appreciated players with potential.

In that respect, Tigers actually take very big gambles, comparable to Arsene Wenger, if not bigger!

Iain · Post by **Iain** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:17 pm

simon redshaw wrote:This Sean Hohneck sounds very interesting with that write up! I don't know that much about him although I did a Super 14 Fantasy competition this year! :oops: :oops: One to look out for!

Where does he play?

He's a lock. A giant one (about 6 foot 8!!)

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:31 pm

Dave, there isn't much I can say to counter that! Fair play!

I got so wrapped up in arguing for more gambles now that I shot myself in the foot!

Thanks for putting me straight!

In fact the only thing I can say is that not all of those gambles have worked well. But maybe again I'd be shooting myself!

At least they were taken!

What about Tigers gambling more? Maybe Matt Smith is that gamble!

TerraceJoe · Post by **TerraceJoe** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:33 pm

Haven't all the players who Dave Angel mentioned, injury aside, been successes?? I would have said so!

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:42 pm

That's my point becuase of injury one or two haven't done as well as we would have liked. I.E. Freddie Tuilagi and Seru. I am not having a go at either just that injuries have prevented them doing as much as they would have liked.

Anyway time to try and work out the escape route out of the hole!

Not all though would agree for instance on the signings of say Frank Murphy and Paul Burke.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:18 pm

Every signing is a gamble, and not just the low-profile signings of lads with potential.

Breaking the bank to buy a "proven" player is even more of a gamble as these characters can also fail to live up to their billing, leaving the management with egg on their faces and the bean-counters stuck with an expensive contract they have to honour.

There's no way out of that. Well, I suppose you could tempt them into taking recreational drugs and then make sure they get randomly tested? But surely no one would do that?

k1 · Post by k1 » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:41 pm

simon redshaw wrote:To put it this way, apart from Bell and Walder perhaps, are there any others on the in lists of other clubs you would have liked to have seen at Tigers?

There are plenty who I would have liked to see at WR - Bortolami, Balshaw, Walker(?), Ratuvou, and Garvey - Danny Care, in particular. I think these are all great signings, potentially. Point is, can't think of how they might fit into the team - in that regard, I agree with you.

stevetelcom2000 · Post by **stevetelcom2000** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:52 pm

k1 wrote:
simon redshaw wrote:To put it this way, apart from Bell and Walder perhaps, are there any others on the in lists of other clubs you would have liked to have seen at Tigers?
There are plenty who I would have liked to see at WR - Bortolami, Balshaw, Walker(?), Ratuvou, and Garvey - Danny Care, in particular. I think these are all great signings, potentially. Point is, can't think of how they might fit into the team - in that regard, I agree with you.

There will be a Garvey at Welford Rd next season....me. More likely to find me in the bars than actually playing though

And not in a Tigers shirt but a Munster one.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:03 pm

Tsk! I don't know.

You lot. You come over here, drink in our bars......

stevetelcom2000 · Post by **stevetelcom2000** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:26 pm

Kinoulton wrote:Tsk! I don't know.

You lot. You come over here, drink in our bars......

I know, what are we loike?

Crumby · Post by **Crumby** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:05 am

Tigers appear to be OK in comparison to the others, althogh i am still concerned that as a league the english prem is building mediocrity - O to be French with no salary cap "what chance of Europe"

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:04 am

Crumby wrote: O to be French "

Take that man to The Tower.

JB · Post by JB » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:56 am

Having looked at that list, one thing stikes me.

Lots of average players. Is there one player ther who you would at and go "wow, can't wait to see him play"

This links back to the salary cap, which I fear is turning the premiership into the Averageship, full of south sea islanders, who are not good enough to play in the NPC and Argentine/Italians who are not good enough to play in france.

Pellsey · Post by **Pellsey** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:16 am

I agree JB... But in English or even British rugby, I would say the scrum is traditionally very strong and IMHO Argentians and Italians are amongst the best scrummagers in the world. In France, they play more 15 man rugby (as do the SH nations), which is a different style to that in England, hence the players that they sign are different sort of players. I personally can't wait to see our two new props playing. And this coming from a fly half / centre!!

My personal humble opinion is to raise the salary cap enough so that better players are allowed to be signed, but not so much that it gets rediculous like wendyball. HOWEVER, I am a total believer in raising home grown talent or nurturing promising talent. Leicester have done that very well over the years. Nobody else would have players like Johnno and Les Cusworth (I'm sure there are many many more I've not mentioned) (then players that Tigers nurtured like Deano, Dusty, Rory Underwood, Peter Wheeler, Paul Dodge, Oz etc etc) who were world class players and remained loyal to the club throughout their careers.