Prem Ins and Outs

k1 · Post by k1 » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:49 am

http://www.planet-rugby.com/Tournaments ... 2045.shtml

Quite interesting to see all the transfer moves together. I must admit, I was quite critical of Tigers not really doing too much in the transfer market, but after seeing this I don't think they're any worse than most other teams. Quins have made some good signings and I think they'll do well next year.

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:56 am

To put it this way, apart from Bell and Walder perhaps, are there any others on the in lists of other clubs you would have liked to have seen at Tigers?

Iain · Post by **Iain** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:58 am

I have said this all along that I didn't feel any other sides were making any more exciting signings than we were. Off that list yes Stuart Abbott would have been nice but Quins are paying him silly money to go there, salary cap capacity that we just don't have. Other than that, I can't look at any sides signings and think that they are showing more ambition than we are. The transfer market has been very slow this year for top international players, pretty much the whole Premiership is bolstering a squad more than anything.

Iain · Post by **Iain** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:00 am

simon redshaw wrote:To put it this way, apart from Bell and Walder perhaps, are there any others on the in lists of other clubs you would have liked to have seen at Tigers?

I still now say Bell is unproven and Walder is overrated. Do you really think Rob Andrew (who knows a bit about fly half play) would have released him if he was as good as certain people on here likes to make out?

banbury tiger · Post by **banbury tiger** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:06 am

agree with you k1 that harlequins have sighned well and could finish mid table ! but to answer your question

[quote="simon redshaw"]To put it this way, apart from Bell and Walder perhaps, are there any others on the in lists of other clubs you would have liked to have seen at Tigers?[/quote]

probably not, but yes iain i think walder probably is overated.
Although i do think that hal luscombe is a quality player but i dont think pat needs him.

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:26 am

Iain I hear what you are saying about why Rob Andrew released Dave Walder. However, why are Wasps then taking a big gamble on him especially as they have a pretty good player in Mark Van Gisbergen and a pretty useful back-up for him in Jeremy Staunton? Seems odd! I actually find Walder's transfer to Wasps a little odd.

I understand too what you are saying about Chris Bell. However, perhaps the best club in the Premiership, Sale, are prepared to take a gamble on him becoming the finished article for them and if he does might other clubs not regret that they weren't there first!

How is that Quins are able to pay Stuart Abbott considerably more then even we could offer? He or Hal Luscombe or Bell would have been the ones for me. Plus a quality back-up for Andy maybe.

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:28 am

Banbury Tiger, I agree with what you are saying about Quins, would have had Luscombe although as you Pat may not need him and probably you're right about Walder.

Abbott was a quality player for the Pests and will be for Quins too.

Iain · Post by **Iain** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:46 am

Thing is with Abbott simon is that he said himself that the reason he joined Quins was because he was offered more money than he knows what to do with, I believe he is by far and away the highest paid player in the Premiership right now. Quins have the space to pay that, we don't. We have other internationals taking up sizeable proportions of our salary cap. But despite being by far and away the highest paid player in the Premiership, is he by far and away the best player in the Premiership? Answer: not a chance. If you have a team full of internationals (including the England captain) as we have I just don't think it would be right, whether we could afford it or not, to be offering a fringe international a large amount more than what the existing internationals are on. And thats why I wouldn't have signed him!

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:50 am

Personally, I would rather gamble on a player like Bell then not.

Let me make a comparison to footie. Look at Arsenal. Think of Arsene Wenger's track record with bringing on relative unknowns. Would the likes of Robert Pires, Patrick Viera, Cesc Fabregas and even Thierry Henry have done as well as they have done if Arsene had taken the sort of attitude towards relatively unknown players that some take on this forum. I think not!! His track record shows that you need to be prepared to gamble on a player rather then just stick to tried and maybe trusted has beens.

Something a club like Tigers could take note of. If only we had an equivalent of Wenger at Tigers!

Iain · Post by **Iain** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:54 am

Arsene Wenger never had a salary cap to contend with!!

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:59 am

Very true but he hasn't had the sort of money to play with that Man U have or Chelsea now have either!

My argument is that if you are prepared to take a gamble on an unfinished article, then you may well reap the dividends. I bet you you know who flourishes at Sale!

A Fiver says so! :D :D :D :D

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:11 am

Iain, that was a very good argument concerning why Abbott has gone to Quins. It appears that the only reason he has gone is due to a very tempting money offer. When he already has a considerable wage with Wasps already for a fringe international. Makes him very greedy. I thought that he had gone for a new challenge but just for more money makes him a money-grabbing so and so.

With that sort of wage for someone not a regular international, then no we couldn't afford him with the size of squad and sort of players we have we have and no we didn't need someone with his attitude.

You can have that one Iain! Fair play!

Iain · Post by **Iain** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:24 am

Well he has gone for more money but I don't necessarily blame him for that. At the end of the day he's only human like the rest of us and rugby players can't afford to retire off the earnings they make during their career, unlike footballers. As in any job there is an element of job satisfaction which may have caused him to turn his head (wanting a change of scenery). If somebody is prepared to pay him that kind of wage then I'd have to question why anyone would turn it down! All I'm saying is we were right not to offer it to him!

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:42 am

I can understand your argument to a point there Iain on rugby players not being able to earn enough to retire off the earnings they make during their career, but to a certain point there should be a sense of feeling towards your current club. Wasps may not be able to offer the money that Quins are able to at the moment but they treated him very well on the monetary side. Also, Wasps made him the sort of player he is today. Maybe my description of Abbott was simplistic and unfortunate but I think he should have paid more consideration to the club loyalty aspect rather then more the financial side.

If on the other hand there is also an element of a fresh challenge, then you can't entirely blame him for that.

Will there come a time when even Quins have to be more rational about their salary policy?

Iain · Post by **Iain** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:58 am

If they continue to grow succesfully and more of their players become internationals then undoubtedly. their salary cap is the same as anyone else's. However they have the capacity at the moment to be able to pay Abbott what they are, so in the short term they have no reason not to I suppose.

In terms of other transfers this season I think Bristol have done well in recruiting Sean Hohneck in particular, and to a lesser extent David Hill. Hohneck in particular I liked the look of for Waikato and for the Chiefs, and also for the Maoris from what I saw when I lived down that way. I also had either forgotten or it had passed me by that Paul Gustard had signed for Saracens. A good player for us who was unfortunate to be with us at a time when Moody excelled that little bit more.