Premier league final day.

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Rugbygramps
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Premier league final day.

Post by Rugbygramps » Mon May 23, 2022 9:41 am

Apologies for this but likely to be a slow week.
I saw an Instagram post yesterday, which I now can’t find, the gist of which was that despite the huge difference in teams wealth across the premier league the last day had seen a lot of excitement with battles at the top, for European qualification and relegation AND that this was something rugby should learn from, by removing the salary cap and letting each club work within their own budget.
A good idea or would the bells toll for certain teams ?

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by ads » Mon May 23, 2022 9:47 am

I wouldn't be bothered if we lost the salary cap, clubs should be allowed to spend money if they're able to. But, I do think we'd need some form of financial fair play rules to keep things in check.

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by Old Hob » Mon May 23, 2022 11:09 am

I think the only thing we can learn from soccer is how not to do things. The cap keeps things competitive and, whilst I would like to see more alignment with France/Ireland, an unrestricted, free for all market is surely a road to ruin.
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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by Rugbygramps » Mon May 23, 2022 12:40 pm

Old Hob wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 11:09 am
I think the only thing we can learn from soccer is how not to do things. The cap keeps things competitive and, whilst I would like to see more alignment with France/Ireland, an unrestricted, free for all market is surely a road to ruin.
The point was being made that it isn’t the road to ruin. You may have mini leagues within a league but those with smaller budgets can compete with the bigger boys on ant given day.
IMO it’s typical of the English disease be it in education or sport, don’t encourage the lower achievers to achieve more, rather put restrictions on those with more capability so they are brought down to a lower level.

If there was no cap would the table look a lot different to how it does now, I honestly don’t think it would

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by Tiglon » Mon May 23, 2022 1:18 pm

You realise that TV rights for the Premier League 2022-2025 are worth over £10 BILLION?

Even the bottom club in the Premier League receives just under £100 million in prize money.

The result of this is somewhat the same as the cap in rugby - teams are on a closer financial footing than they were 10-20 years ago. Some years ago there was a study done of playing wage bills in the Premier League and the league table correlated almost 100% with the league table of highest playing wage bills - the notable exception being Everton under David Moyes. So, yeah, professional sporting success comes down to money, so if you want a competitive competition you need to either lift the finances of the lesser teams (as football has done) or limit the finances of the stronger teams (as rugby has done).

Would the Premiership Rugby table look much different without a cap? Well Bath and Bristol probably would have bought their way to the top by now, and the table would probably be a bit shorter after a couple of clubs had gone out of business trying to chase them...

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by wigworth » Mon May 23, 2022 1:22 pm

Perhaps some sort of soft cap might work like what is used in NBA and MLB, where there is a soft cap limit but you can spend over the cap if you want to but will pay what they call a luxury tax, which is where the team will pay the league a scaling amount depending on how far they go over the cap. This money collected is then distributed to the teams who did not spend over the cap.

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by GB72 » Mon May 23, 2022 1:25 pm

I think that it would lead to a downward spiral. Many teams can just about afford the current cap and even then most make a loss. From a Tigers points of view, with there being no sugar daddy bankrolling us, I can see us dropping to a regular mid table spot assuming wages stay as they are, and this is the point. Whether it is good or bad, the more money that there is in football, the more that the players demand in wages. As such, only the teams with the highest budgets could afford top, or even just very decent players as their wage demands increase.

You could also forget about re-introducing promotion or relegation as the cost to even compete at the higher level would be too great.

Mnay clubs are just about holding things together now, to lift regulations would be commercial and competitive suicide. My opinion would be the opposite and to negotiate and agree salary caps Europe wide as opposed to just by individual nations.

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Mon May 23, 2022 1:34 pm

Depends if people want owners with rather debatable (at best) back stories......see Football for plenty of examples.
If Tigers can't get the books to balance off the back of 20,000 crowds the game isn't exactly financially stable, however much we love the game, compared to football & "American" sports, it's a minority sport.
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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by Tigerbeat » Mon May 23, 2022 1:43 pm

If I remember rightly, Rugby League clubs were limited to 50% on the Clubs income to be used for players salaries......a cap in the sense that also protected a club from going out of business.
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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by wigworth » Mon May 23, 2022 1:45 pm

Tigerbeat wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 1:43 pm
If I remember rightly, Rugby League clubs were limited to 50% on the Clubs income to be used for players salaries......a cap in the sense that also protected a club from going out of business.
Was this before or after Bradford had their issues?

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by Rugbygramps » Mon May 23, 2022 1:56 pm

Excellent points made. So to expand the discussion. We at Tigers have one of the most marketable brands in European rugby and crowds that are the envy of he premiership, Sarries had 9000 in v Saints at the weekend.
If the cap was relaxed/removed would supporters be happy to see the right kind of owner come in if it meant the club maintained its current playing position, or would it be the thin end of the wedge.

What we don’t want to see is a repeat of Rugby Lions fictional money man

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by bendy » Mon May 23, 2022 2:09 pm

I think we should be cautious of the "I'm alright Jack" mindset.

Yes, Tigers may fare well under any potential changes to the financial regulations (note: "may"), however if let's say Worcester and London Irish had to gamble on taking on excessive debt to attract the players to compete at the top level and for whatever reason, those players underperformed and the clubs missed out on Champions Cup rugby with no means of keeping up with those debt levels - would we be happy playing in a ten team premiership? Fewer match days would mean less revenue for the clubs, less TV income, etc.

In my view we need to be thinking about the poorest members of the league (/ and Championship) rather than on what's best for the biggest / best clubs in the league.

Whilst the cap isn't perfect, it does provide a level playing field.

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by Tigerbeat » Mon May 23, 2022 2:29 pm

wigworth wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 1:45 pm
Tigerbeat wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 1:43 pm
If I remember rightly, Rugby League clubs were limited to 50% on the Clubs income to be used for players salaries......a cap in the sense that also protected a club from going out of business.
Was this before or after Bradford had their issues?
Going back quite a few years...before Bradford had their issues
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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by GB72 » Mon May 23, 2022 2:31 pm

The problem is always going to be that the TV and sponsorship money is never going to be enough to support a bottomless wage pit. The harsh reality is that rugby is not growing in levels of support below international level and there are not queues of companies linining up to buy the TV rights. To remove the salary cap would mean having a sport that, at the highest level, was funded by debt or generous benefactors and that is no position to be in. Even with the support we have and the salary cap we make a loss.

It has to be faced that rugby is not a massively viable commercial entity at club level

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Re: Premier league final day.

Post by Rugbygramps » Mon May 23, 2022 2:33 pm

bendy wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 2:09 pm
I think we should be cautious of the "I'm alright Jack" mindset.

Yes, Tigers may fare well under any potential changes to the financial regulations (note: "may"), however if let's say Worcester and London Irish had to gamble on taking on excessive debt to attract the players to compete at the top level and for whatever reason, those players underperformed and the clubs missed out on Champions Cup rugby with no means of keeping up with those debt levels - would we be happy playing in a ten team premiership? Fewer match days would mean less revenue for the clubs, less TV income, etc.

In my view we need to be thinking about the poorest members of the league (/ and Championship) rather than on what's best for the biggest / best clubs in the league.

Whilst the cap isn't perfect, it does provide a level playing field.
Again good points but playing Devils Advocate Is life a level playing field or do you always have over and underachievers.

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