England Squad for down under

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No6_Flanker
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Re: England Squad for down under

Post by No6_Flanker » Wed May 18, 2022 12:06 pm

Odd not to see Marchant in there. He’s not one of the senior players who would benefit from a rest. Will have to see if he is in the Quins team this weekend.

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Re: England Squad for down under

Post by Hot_Charlie » Wed May 18, 2022 4:40 pm

ay2oh wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 11:03 am
Rugbygramps wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 10:59 am
ay2oh wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 10:57 am
So an England get together just b4 the play-offs. You couldn’t make it up :smt017
Thought it was next week
It is but still a risk of injuries.
Do you know the itinerary? I bet half of it is probably going to be squad photos for the newbies etc. I'm not sure they'll get to the smashing seven bells out of each other stage.

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Re: England Squad for down under

Post by Hot_Charlie » Wed May 18, 2022 4:41 pm

No6_Flanker wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 12:06 pm
Odd not to see Marchant in there. He’s not one of the senior players who would benefit from a rest. Will have to see if he is in the Quins team this weekend.
I suspect Jones has chosen to include as few of his "senior" players as possible. Notable that the "leadership" group are there.

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Re: England Squad for down under

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Fri May 27, 2022 8:01 am

https://youtu.be/1UDmoKBPg_Y

A really interesting look at Eddie Jones and England’s prep for the world cup, where Welshman Squidge Rugby tips England for world cup glory...
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by sam16111986 » Fri May 27, 2022 11:01 am

Rugbygramps wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 9:20 am
10 is going to be interesting. Farrell is playing some fantastic rugby at 10 at present and I could see him starting ahead of Smith. If Tuilagi is fit he plays 12 and personally I would like to see Marchant in the 13 shirt. I could see Kelly as the understudy at 12 he is very powerful and has excellent hands as well as being very good defensively.
That doesn't really fit the new unstructured, no defined position attacking game plan. You need someone on their feet calling the shots to organise the attack. Smith grew into that role over the 6N, though it worked best in the brief Ford cameos where the two of them orchestrated things. It also worked best in the AIs when Farrell and Smith combined Vs Australia.

The problem in the 6N seemed to be if Smith was tackled and out of the game then England didn't reorganise the attack very well we stuttered. If we keep playing in this way we need two playmakers so one is always there ordering things, ideally one is ordering things and Smith is freed up to do his ball in hand magic. Slade didn't look up to the task in the 6N sadly. Can't see Manu at 12 organising the attacking line and Marchant didn't in the 6N either. Unless a playmaker is swapped in to either wing or 15 or England drop the intentional lack of structure and go to a more conventional attack but that is unlikely.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by Scott1 » Fri May 27, 2022 11:09 am

Rugbygramps wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 9:20 am
10 is going to be interesting. Farrell is playing some fantastic rugby at 10 at present and I could see him starting ahead of Smith. If Tuilagi is fit he plays 12 and personally I would like to see Marchant in the 13 shirt. I could see Kelly as the understudy at 12 he is very powerful and has excellent hands as well as being very good defensively.
Jones has already said his ideal first choice MF is Smith,Farrell,Manu.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by Rugbygramps » Fri May 27, 2022 11:48 am

sam16111986 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 11:01 am
Rugbygramps wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 9:20 am
10 is going to be interesting. Farrell is playing some fantastic rugby at 10 at present and I could see him starting ahead of Smith. If Tuilagi is fit he plays 12 and personally I would like to see Marchant in the 13 shirt. I could see Kelly as the understudy at 12 he is very powerful and has excellent hands as well as being very good defensively.
That doesn't really fit the new unstructured, no defined position attacking game plan. You need someone on their feet calling the shots to organise the attack. Smith grew into that role over the 6N, though it worked best in the brief Ford cameos where the two of them orchestrated things. It also worked best in the AIs when Farrell and Smith combined Vs Australia.

The problem in the 6N seemed to be if Smith was tackled and out of the game then England didn't reorganise the attack very well we stuttered. If we keep playing in this way we need two playmakers so one is always there ordering things, ideally one is ordering things and Smith is freed up to do his ball in hand magic. Slade didn't look up to the task in the 6N sadly. Can't see Manu at 12 organising the attacking line and Marchant didn't in the 6N either. Unless a playmaker is swapped in to either wing or 15 or England drop the intentional lack of structure and go to a more conventional attack but that is unlikely.
Hear what you’re saying Sam but let’s face it that didn’t work. For me there are 2 options. If he persists with Smith at 10 he has to build the same attacking shape around him he has at Quins, so Dombrandt at 8 a nippy 9, possibly Randall, and a 12 who will run through Brick walls, Tuilagi. Big problem for me is he he builds this shape what happens if Smith gets injured who goes to 10. Rightly or wrongly Farrell is Jones captain so he plays shoehorning him in at 12 next to me just doesn’t work. Best of playing him at 10 Smith on the bench and if necessary move Farrell to 12 later in the game.
IMHO if England go with a midfield of Smith Farrell Tuilagi they won’t get past the quarter finals of RWC

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Fri May 27, 2022 11:54 am

Building any game plan that relies upon Manu being fit & available is of course a risky one, personally I would have that as Plan B.

If Kelly keeps progressing he is in a good place to play Internationally, it might help him long term if EJ doesn't pick him.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by Scott1 » Fri May 27, 2022 1:33 pm

Imagine a MF of Smith, Kelly, Manu? I suppose we can dream!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by westwinds31 » Fri May 27, 2022 6:29 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 1:33 pm
Imagine a MF of Smith, Kelly, Manu? I suppose we can dream!
Smith needs to move forward a bit. He’s playing too deep for Quins and England. He won’t challenge the line where he is currently standing. Farrell on the other hand, love him or hate him is on fire and should start at 10. Kelly outside of him is a mouth-watering prospect.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by Scott1 » Fri May 27, 2022 6:33 pm

westwinds31 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 6:29 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 1:33 pm
Imagine a MF of Smith, Kelly, Manu? I suppose we can dream!
Smith needs to move forward a bit. He’s playing too deep for Quins and England. He won’t challenge the line where he is currently standing. Farrell on the other hand, love him or hate him is on fire and should start at 10. Kelly outside of him is a mouth-watering prospect.
Not for me but each to their own

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by Rugbygramps » Fri May 27, 2022 6:50 pm

westwinds31 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 6:29 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 1:33 pm
Imagine a MF of Smith, Kelly, Manu? I suppose we can dream!
Smith needs to move forward a bit. He’s playing too deep for Quins and England. He won’t challenge the line where he is currently standing. Farrell on the other hand, love him or hate him is on fire and should start at 10. Kelly outside of him is a mouth-watering prospect.
Totally agree anyone that has seen Farrell play over the past few weeks will have seen that he is the form 10 in the northern hemisphere at present

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by ay2oh » Fri May 27, 2022 6:53 pm

Rugbygramps wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 6:50 pm
westwinds31 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 6:29 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 1:33 pm
Imagine a MF of Smith, Kelly, Manu? I suppose we can dream!
Smith needs to move forward a bit. He’s playing too deep for Quins and England. He won’t challenge the line where he is currently standing. Farrell on the other hand, love him or hate him is on fire and should start at 10. Kelly outside of him is a mouth-watering prospect.
Totally agree anyone that has seen Farrell play over the past few weeks will have seen that he is the form 10 in the northern hemisphere at present
Much as it hurts me to say Farrell can only dream of doing the things that Smith can do.
A2O

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by Rugbygramps » Fri May 27, 2022 7:07 pm

ay2oh wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 6:53 pm
Rugbygramps wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 6:50 pm
westwinds31 wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 6:29 pm


Smith needs to move forward a bit. He’s playing too deep for Quins and England. He won’t challenge the line where he is currently standing. Farrell on the other hand, love him or hate him is on fire and should start at 10. Kelly outside of him is a mouth-watering prospect.
Totally agree anyone that has seen Farrell play over the past few weeks will have seen that he is the form 10 in the northern hemisphere at present
Much as it hurts me to say Farrell can only dream of doing the things that Smith can do.
Doesn’t make him any less effective, he is playing right on the game line, while he might not have Smiths tricks and flicks his passing is right on point and his kicking and defence are a level up on Smiths. If it was down to form he would walk into the England 10 shirt at present

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: Steve Borthwick and the Chamber of Oval Park

Post by ay2oh » Fri May 27, 2022 7:12 pm

Agree his defence is better but Smiths attacking instinct is different gravy.
A2O

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