Players asked to take pay cuts!

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BFG
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by BFG » Fri May 22, 2020 1:36 pm

h's dad wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:14 pm
ay2oh wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:49 pm
h's dad wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:35 pm

What would you do if your employer demanded you take a huge pay cut when other employers were queueing up to offer a much better package? I don't know if you have a partner or dependents but Johnny does. What do you thing they're saying?

Johnny May has always given his all on the pitch (IMO) which is more than I think can be said of some.

In any professional field there is loyalty and there is stupidity. The line isn't that blurred.
Sorry agree with bigdan50 here. Ben and Tom Young’s chose to take a big pay cut and May did not. In my opinion you will always get more loyalty from players that come through your academy. May decided to take the money and that is his prerogative
You're backing bigdan who has accused Johnny May of showing no loyalty

You're probably generally right about the loyalty of academy players. I know a guy who was really upset when he was effectively pushed out although he doubled his money with his move.

If Johnny had come through the academy and had a brother in the team he might have stayed. Who knows?
I think the difference with May is that he is a starter on merit whereas with others the consistency of their performances perhaps didn't match their expectations.

GETHIN EXILE
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by GETHIN EXILE » Fri May 22, 2020 1:40 pm

a radical suggestion - established international players should have their club salary reduced by the amount they could earn from international appearances, thus making player salaries relative to their availability

h's dad
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by h's dad » Fri May 22, 2020 1:50 pm

GETHIN EXILE wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:40 pm
a radical suggestion - established international players should have their club salary reduced by the amount they could earn from international appearances, thus making player salaries relative to their availability
Not radical at all. I would be amazed if it wasn't taken into account when contracts are drawn up. It doesn't have to be explicit. Unless I'm being radical when I pay my part-timers less than I pay my full-timers?
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

MrG2
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by MrG2 » Fri May 22, 2020 6:48 pm

GETHIN EXILE wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:40 pm
a radical suggestion - established international players should have their club salary reduced by the amount they could earn from international appearances, thus making player salaries relative to their availability
Only issue is someone like Dan Cole who when he signed his contract he was on England money and now won’t be

GETHIN EXILE
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by GETHIN EXILE » Fri May 22, 2020 10:37 pm

Another possible suggestion - the payments to international players should be made to the club rather than the player thus compensating the club for supplying the player ie if you wish to use my players you have to rent them from me.

kk20gb30
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by kk20gb30 » Sat May 23, 2020 8:45 am

Common sense realisation needs to be made that the landscape has changed.
I don't think it would be incorrect to say that for many (ordinary ??) people furlough could effectively become redundancy.

Tiglon
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Tiglon » Sat May 23, 2020 8:56 am

kk20gb30 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:45 am
Common sense realisation needs to be made that the landscape has changed.
I don't think it would be incorrect to say that for many (ordinary ??) people furlough could effectively become redundancy.
Agreed. For many, furlough is "the waiting room for redundancy".

There's no such thing as loyalty, it's just a fairytale we made up to make us feel better about the financial and social transactions we make. We like to feel as though we are loyal, and we like to feel that others are loyal to us. It makes us feel happier and safer.

h's dad
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by h's dad » Sat May 23, 2020 1:55 pm

GETHIN EXILE wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:37 pm
Another possible suggestion - the payments to international players should be made to the club rather than the player thus compensating the club for supplying the player ie if you wish to use my players you have to rent them from me.
I don't know how correct this is but a Nick Cain article back in January indicates that the RFU gives the PRL £180k for each England player of which £80k goes to the club. I'm suspicious that the detail in the article might not be right as there seems to be no differentiation between one-offs and regulars but I expect the gist is in the right ball park.

Take the payments off the players and you'll have Martin Johnson outside your door with a placard and a brazier.
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h's dad
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by h's dad » Sat May 23, 2020 2:01 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:56 am
kk20gb30 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:45 am
Common sense realisation needs to be made that the landscape has changed.
I don't think it would be incorrect to say that for many (ordinary ??) people furlough could effectively become redundancy.
Agreed. For many, furlough is "the waiting room for redundancy".

There's no such thing as loyalty, it's just a fairytale we made up to make us feel better about the financial and social transactions we make. We like to feel as though we are loyal, and we like to feel that others are loyal to us. It makes us feel happier and safer.
Wow. I thought I was cynical. Wouldn't loyalty be some sort of function based on integrity and the honouring of a perceived debt or obligation without compulsion?
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

Tiglon
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Tiglon » Sat May 23, 2020 2:33 pm

h's dad wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:01 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:56 am
kk20gb30 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:45 am
Common sense realisation needs to be made that the landscape has changed.
I don't think it would be incorrect to say that for many (ordinary ??) people furlough could effectively become redundancy.
Agreed. For many, furlough is "the waiting room for redundancy".

There's no such thing as loyalty, it's just a fairytale we made up to make us feel better about the financial and social transactions we make. We like to feel as though we are loyal, and we like to feel that others are loyal to us. It makes us feel happier and safer.
Wow. I thought I was cynical. Wouldn't loyalty be some sort of function based on integrity and the honouring of a perceived debt or obligation without compulsion?
Are you saying the definition of loyalty is a person who repays their mortgage?

Mark62
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Mark62 » Sat May 23, 2020 2:37 pm

IMO Loyalty these days is very much an outdated concept., certainly in terms of suppliers and consumers.
The days of sticking with your energy supplier, mortgage lender, insurance company etc are long gone, we all look for the best deal available. Same with supermarkets, especially since their loyalty schemes were proven to be little more than data mining schemes.
I think there is a similar attitude to sports teams. I stopped playing in 1989 through injury, but had I continued I would have stayed at the same club, Stoneygate until I stopped playing. In those days, outside of football, it was unheard of for players to change clubs, unless there were geographic reasons.
Now at all levels players move around clubs, Mays reason was financially motivated, I have no doubt he is 100% committed to whichever club is paying him, but when his contract is up at Gloucester he will look for the best deal.
That’s modern life I’m afraid and loyalty these days usually starts with a £

h's dad
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by h's dad » Sat May 23, 2020 4:27 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:33 pm
h's dad wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:01 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:56 am


Agreed. For many, furlough is "the waiting room for redundancy".

There's no such thing as loyalty, it's just a fairytale we made up to make us feel better about the financial and social transactions we make. We like to feel as though we are loyal, and we like to feel that others are loyal to us. It makes us feel happier and safer.
Wow. I thought I was cynical. Wouldn't loyalty be some sort of function based on integrity and the honouring of a perceived debt or obligation without compulsion?
Are you saying the definition of loyalty is a person who repays their mortgage?
I'm fairly sure that if I tried to avoid repaying my mortgage there would be an element of compulsion. If your provider doesn't do this, please let me have their details.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

Tiglon
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Tiglon » Sat May 23, 2020 4:50 pm

h's dad wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:27 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:33 pm
h's dad wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:01 pm


Wow. I thought I was cynical. Wouldn't loyalty be some sort of function based on integrity and the honouring of a perceived debt or obligation without compulsion?
Are you saying the definition of loyalty is a person who repays their mortgage?
I'm fairly sure that if I tried to avoid repaying my mortgage there would be an element of compulsion. If your provider doesn't do this, please let me have their details.
No one forces me to make my mortgage payments.

Anyway, apologies for taking it slightly off topic. Rugby club loyalty: I don't think there is less loyalty now than there was in the 80's, there was just less reason to change clubs then. Back then, if you lived near Leicester and played for Tigers, why stay at Tigers instead of moving to Gloucester? Was it loyalty, or just that there was really nothing to gain from moving to Gloucester?

There certainly wasn't a lack of financial greed in the 80's, there just wasn't any money in rugby. Don't forget, the 80's was the decade that practically invented greed, whereas the current decade is all about environmentalism and clapping for the NHS.

Perhaps loyalty exists until that lovely feeling of being loyal is outweighed by the benefits of going somewhere else. I.e. Loyalty is a thing until someone meets your price.

If someone offered me £50k to support Gloucester, I'd bite their hand off.

Mark62
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Mark62 » Sat May 23, 2020 6:30 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:50 pm
h's dad wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:27 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:33 pm


Are you saying the definition of loyalty is a person who repays their mortgage?
I'm fairly sure that if I tried to avoid repaying my mortgage there would be an element of compulsion. If your provider doesn't do this, please let me have their details.
No one forces me to make my mortgage payments.

Anyway, apologies for taking it slightly off topic. Rugby club loyalty: I don't think there is less loyalty now than there was in the 80's, there was just less reason to change clubs then. Back then, if you lived near Leicester and played for Tigers, why stay at Tigers instead of moving to Gloucester? Was it loyalty, or just that there was really nothing to gain from moving to Gloucester?

There certainly wasn't a lack of financial greed in the 80's, there just wasn't any money in rugby. Don't forget, the 80's was the decade that practically invented greed, whereas the current decade is all about environmentalism and clapping for the NHS.

Perhaps loyalty exists until that lovely feeling of being loyal is outweighed by the benefits of going somewhere else. I.e. Loyalty is a thing until someone meets your price.

If someone offered me £50k to support Gloucester, I'd bite their hand off.
To say there was no money in rugby in the 80s is incorrect. There may have been no visible money, and there were certainly incentives for top players to move clubs provided by friendly local employers

Longshanks
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Re: Players asked to take pay cuts!

Post by Longshanks » Sat May 23, 2020 6:34 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:30 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:50 pm
h's dad wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:27 pm

I'm fairly sure that if I tried to avoid repaying my mortgage there would be an element of compulsion. If your provider doesn't do this, please let me have their details.
No one forces me to make my mortgage payments.

Anyway, apologies for taking it slightly off topic. Rugby club loyalty: I don't think there is less loyalty now than there was in the 80's, there was just less reason to change clubs then. Back then, if you lived near Leicester and played for Tigers, why stay at Tigers instead of moving to Gloucester? Was it loyalty, or just that there was really nothing to gain from moving to Gloucester?

There certainly wasn't a lack of financial greed in the 80's, there just wasn't any money in rugby. Don't forget, the 80's was the decade that practically invented greed, whereas the current decade is all about environmentalism and clapping for the NHS.

Perhaps loyalty exists until that lovely feeling of being loyal is outweighed by the benefits of going somewhere else. I.e. Loyalty is a thing until someone meets your price.

If someone offered me £50k to support Gloucester, I'd bite their hand off.
To say there was no money in rugby in the 80s is incorrect. There may have been no visible money, and there were certainly incentives for top players to move clubs provided by friendly local employers
Some rather famous names amongst them!

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