The Six Nations Thread

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Roly
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Roly » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:43 pm

BFG wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:17 pm

Brown had a good game but not sure how relevant that is to when England eventually meet the All Blacks
No less relevant than when England last beat the All blacks with Brown playing.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by BFG » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:18 pm

Roly wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:43 pm
BFG wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:17 pm

Brown had a good game but not sure how relevant that is to when England eventually meet the All Blacks
No less relevant than when England last beat the All blacks with Brown playing.
Absolutely correct on the face of it, but the match winners and losers on the day the All Blacks were beaten were quite different!
Did Brown not play in the 2015 World Cup flop, I mean we beat the Aussies and Welsh plenty before and after but it counted for nothing come crunch time!
12 points might be enough against Wales but it won't be against the All Blacks in my opinion!
Wales exposed enough to suggest that England haven't quite found the correct balance between attack and defence to take the All Blacks yet, in my opinion!

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Tiglon » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 pm

If you judge every player by one result or one tournament, you'll end up with massively contradictory opinions...

Yes, a team with Brown in can be good enough to beat the All Blacks, and yes, a team with Brown in can be bad enough to crash out of the group stages of a home World Cup. Neither gives a conclusive indication of Brown's ability.

A conclusive indication of Brown's ability can be found in his performances over the years - and I can't see why anyone would think he isn't a very good player, because he clearly is.

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Tiglon » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:19 pm

P.S. 12 points probably won't be enough to beat the All Blacks, but England weren't playing the All Blacks so that's completely irrelevant.

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Rugbyflanker » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:39 pm

Steff Evans had a great game?oh dear and Navidi was comfortably outplayed by Shingler,leave it at that now because your a having the last word and always right kind of guy and it will go on forever

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Roly » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:50 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 pm

A conclusive indication of Brown's ability can be found in his performances over the years - and I can't see why anyone would think he isn't a very good player.
They're the same sort of people that swear down that Hartley shouldn't be England Captain because of his poor disciplinary record (despite him proving a disciplinary record in an England shirt quite contrary to that belief), that Haskell shouldn't be on the Tigers wish list because he's 'arrogant' (or words to that effect) - never mind that he's one of the best 8's in NH rugby and that Ben Youngs is the best Scrum-Half in the world.

There is no doubt that Mike Brown has lost a yard or two of pace, but as a full back, he's got pretty much all you'd want.

Most dislike of these (and other) players seems to stem from envy, ignorance (usually wilful), club bias or just being dull.

In some cases, all four.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Roly » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:21 pm

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:39 pm
Steff Evans had a great game?oh dear and Navidi was comfortably outplayed by Shingler,leave it at that now because your a having the last word and always right kind of guy and it will go on forever
Look, you obviously know more than every pundit I saw post match, every write up I saw by every rugby journalist post match and player ratings post match.

Wales’ back three were given a torrid time by England but Evans kept on going and made numerous dangerous breaks. Generally industrious, clamp-like over the ball, Navidi is one to watch.

These aren't things I've made up. These are facts. These facts can be validated by reference to almost every online publication I've found and by viewing the weekend's punditry. Instead of arguing with me and therefore redefining irony, if it means that much to you (and obviously it does) I suggest you get off your lazy stump to disprove me instead.

Since I've quite comprehensively proved you wrong, rugby media has quite comprehensively proved you wrong and it is clearly beyond your wit to admit it, may I suggest that you 'leave it now', before you're really taken to the cleaners.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Rugbyflanker » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:35 pm

Steff Evans 12 runs for 53 metres ZERO defenders beaten,ZERO clean breaks. 3 tackles,4 MISSED! Now go and have your dinner before I take you to the cleaners lol

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Rugbyflanker » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:45 pm

Yeah I'll ease off now ive destroyed him with facts. Interesting that Kruis has been dropped from training squad. I have a feeling Eddie will go Underhill/Robshaw/Hughes for Scotland and Lawes and Simmonds or Haskell on bench depending if Simmonds is fit.

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by JP14 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:12 pm

Roly wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:50 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 pm

A conclusive indication of Brown's ability can be found in his performances over the years - and I can't see why anyone would think he isn't a very good player.
They're the same sort of people that swear down that Hartley shouldn't be England Captain because of his poor disciplinary record (despite him proving a disciplinary record in an England shirt quite contrary to that belief), that Haskell shouldn't be on the Tigers wish list because he's 'arrogant' (or words to that effect) - never mind that he's one of the best 8's in NH rugby and that Ben Youngs is the best Scrum-Half in the world.

There is no doubt that Mike Brown has lost a yard or two of pace, but as a full back, he's got pretty much all you'd want.

Most dislike of these (and other) players seems to stem from envy, ignorance (usually wilful), club bias or just being dull.

In some cases, all four.
Haskell hasn’t played 8 in years Roly, he’s a 6/7 that can be deployed at 8 if necessary
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Roly
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Roly » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:45 am

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:45 pm
Yeah I'll ease off now ive destroyed him with facts.
That'll be the day.

I suppose the facts might be in there somewhere, but finding them amongst your shocking English is always going to be a tough job.

So, opinions differ. No news there. However, meters and tackles made do not tell the full story. For example, Wales were on top of pretty much all the hard stats last Saturday, but I think you'll find that England won. I don't really expect you to understand the difference between empirical statistics, and the overall contribution a player makes to a team. How many yards did Danny Care make for example? Did he not play well and positively influence the outcome?

I know what I watched, I know what I've read and heard from rugby minds immeasurably superior to yours. Every player you denigrated prior to the weekend's games proved you wrong in spades, including Evans, Care and Joseph. Because, you were questioning their ability, not how far they might run.... How they contribute on the pitch as part of the wider team and how they are measured by their peers matters in real terms, whether you rate them or not doesn't.
Last edited by Roly on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:07 am, edited 3 times in total.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Chobbsy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:09 am

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:45 pm
Yeah I'll ease off now ive destroyed him with facts. Interesting that Kruis has been dropped from training squad. I have a feeling Eddie will go Underhill/Robshaw/Hughes for Scotland and Lawes and Simmonds or Haskell on bench depending if Simmonds is fit.
I agree, Simmonds I believe is out for 2 matches which means he won't be fit, so it will be Lawes on the bench for me, that way second and back row are covered
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Roly
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Roly » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:17 am

JP14 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:12 pm
Roly wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:50 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 pm

A conclusive indication of Brown's ability can be found in his performances over the years - and I can't see why anyone would think he isn't a very good player.
They're the same sort of people that swear down that Hartley shouldn't be England Captain because of his poor disciplinary record (despite him proving a disciplinary record in an England shirt quite contrary to that belief), that Haskell shouldn't be on the Tigers wish list because he's 'arrogant' (or words to that effect) - never mind that he's one of the best 8's in NH rugby and that Ben Youngs is the best Scrum-Half in the world.

There is no doubt that Mike Brown has lost a yard or two of pace, but as a full back, he's got pretty much all you'd want.

Most dislike of these (and other) players seems to stem from envy, ignorance (usually wilful), club bias or just being dull.

In some cases, all four.
Haskell hasn’t played 8 in years Roly, he’s a 6/7 that can be deployed at 8 if necessary
Ah yes, you're right of course. Silly mistake on my part.

Position aside, I think most would agree that with the state of Tigers' scrum at the moment, Haskell would be a worthwhile addition to the pack - but based purely on his persona (perceived or otherwise) some here would dispute it.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Soggypitch » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:22 pm

As I said on the Haskell thread, he would be a brilliant addition to the Tigers squad/team.

Yes he has an ebullient personality, but so what? Rugby clubs have traditionally dealt very well with players from all walks of life, with all manner of personalities. Never an issue, providing you are a team man when it matters.

Also those of you that have read Matt Hampson's book (if not you should do), will realise that JH is one of the good guys at heart, he can just be a bit loud, but no harm in that!
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by jgriffin » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:51 pm

Haskell would be a piece of Tigers' recovery as a force - the bloke's personality and nous would be invaluable.
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