England v Samoa

[wormus]

Gengie, George and Cole start for England and Hartley is benched.
and Danny Care starts with Ben benched, Ford & May start.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42093687

[mol2]

Some of this is fine for experimentation, but I do find strange that they persist with Itoje in the back row.
He's a world class lock but at international level he's a makeshift back row.

England may have quality locks in abundance but I'm not entirely convinced that shoehorning them into other positions is optimal. Experiment with up and coming back row players by all means.

[Chobbsy]

Some of this is fine for experimentation, but I do find strange that they persist with Itoje in the back row.
He's a world class lock but at international level he's a makeshift back row.

England may have quality locks in abundance but I'm not entirely convinced that shoehorning them into other positions is optimal. Experiment with up and coming back row players by all means.

I tend to agree to a certain extent, however I would not call Maro's performance against Australia a makeshift one, he was very close to being man of the match. But yes I agree I prefer to see him in the second row.

[Stephen18]

Some of this is fine for experimentation, but I do find strange that they persist with Itoje in the back row.
He's a world class lock but at international level he's a makeshift back row.

England may have quality locks in abundance but I'm not entirely convinced that shoehorning them into other positions is optimal. Experiment with up and coming back row players by all means.

I agree Eddie seems to want to pick the best players unfortunately they all seem to play the same position. So he puts them in another position.
Also can someone tell me as mako and Farrell weren’t initially released but now aren’t in the 23 does that mean they are or aren’t available for
Sarries cause you’d be pretty annoyed if England took both your 10s and didn’t even play one of them.

[LE18]

Which Tualagi is on the bench for Samoa, Alex?

[Roly]

Some of this is fine for experimentation, but I do find strange that they persist with Itoje in the back row.
He's a world class lock but at international level he's a makeshift back row.

England may have quality locks in abundance but I'm not entirely convinced that shoehorning them into other positions is optimal. Experiment with up and coming back row players by all means.

I agree Eddie seems to want to pick the best players unfortunately they all seem to play the same position. So he puts them in another position.

Where generally, they have performed extremely well. Itoje and Lawes can (and have demonstrated that they can) play in any back three position with relative ease, for club and country. The fact that EJ is prepared to mix them up a little shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who regularly watches any rugby beyond the Crumbie.

EJ is giving players a chance to stake a claim. Competition for places and desire to improve is driving this England team on. I suspect the experimenting will stop immediately before playing NZ in 2018, then we'll see where they are in the run up to RWC 2019. EJ isn't building a team, he's building a powerful, very able squad.

The only question mark in this series was over starting Slade at 12. However, nobody really shone in that match and he needs to be given a chance at 13, his preferred position.

[Stephen18]

[quote=Stephen18 post_id=677980 time=<a href="tel:1511436709">1511436709</a> user_id=12229]
[quote=mol2 post_id=677975 time=<a href="tel:1511434372">1511434372</a> user_id=5173]
Some of this is fine for experimentation, but I do find strange that they persist with Itoje in the back row.
He's a world class lock but at international level he's a makeshift back row.

England may have quality locks in abundance but I'm not entirely convinced that shoehorning them into other positions is optimal. Experiment with up and coming back row players by all means.

I agree Eddie seems to want to pick the best players unfortunately they all seem to play the same position. So he puts them in another position.

[/quote]

Where generally, they have performed extremely well. Itoje and Lawes can (and have demonstrated that they can) play in any back three position with relative ease, for club and country. The fact that EJ is prepared to mix them up a little shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who regularly watches any rugby beyond the Crumbie.

EJ is giving players a chance to stake a claim. Competition for places and desire to improve is driving this England team on. I suspect the experimenting will stop immediately before playing NZ in 2018, then we'll see where they are in the run up to RWC 2019. EJ isn't building a team, he's building a powerful, very able squad.

The only question mark in this series was over starting Slade at 12. However, nobody really shone in that match and he needs to be given a chance at 13, his preferred position.
[/quote]
My issue isn’t with experimenting I agree I think lawes has proved to be a good back row, as where I don’t think itoje has ever preformed as well on the flank as he does in the row, my issues it that by just trying to accommodate all these players how many specialist play aren’t even getting looked at Armand, Williams... and I’m the back with wingers and centres, 10s, I feel there has to be a point where if your not the best on your position you just dont make the team.

[BigChris]

I was planning to go to Twickenham on Saturday to see the game, but circumstances this week have overtaken my plans.

I do, therefore, have two tickets for the game if anyone would like to buy them - £50 face value. I live in the Hinckley area but work in town for local pick-up.

Many thanks

[Tiglon]

I think positions within a team are far more interchangeable than they once were. Particularly the back 5 of the scrum.

I think perhaps EJ is concerned that we may not have enough flankers at the required level come 2019, which is very possible, and is trying to be prepared by giving Itoje plenty of international experience playing there.

Six and seven are two positions where we have currently have a couple of older players who will probably be past their best by 2019, and a lot of youngsters who still have a lot to prove. It doesn't hurt to prepare another option in Itoje.

Just imagine if we got to 2019 and Curry and Underhill hadn't progressed as expected, Robshaw was well past it, Itoje had never played flanker at international level and we had 4 top class locks, 2 of which would be sat on the bench. I think we would accuse EJ of poor planning and ask why Itoje was not developed as an option at 6 or 7.

[LE18]

Lawes often plays backrow!

[Stephen18]

I think positions within a team are far more interchangeable than they once were. Particularly the back 5 of the scrum.

I think perhaps EJ is concerned that we may not have enough flankers at the required level come 2019, which is very possible, and is trying to be prepared by giving Itoje plenty of international experience playing there.

Six and seven are two positions where we have currently have a couple of older players who will probably be past their best by 2019, and a lot of youngsters who still have a lot to prove. It doesn't hurt to prepare another option in Itoje.

Just imagine if we got to 2019 and Curry and Underhill hadn't progressed as expected, Robshaw was well past it, Itoje had never played flanker at international level and we had 4 top class locks, 2 of which would be sat on the bench. I think we would accuse EJ of poor planning and ask why Itoje was not developed as an option at 6 or 7.

That’s a fair point but unless you play internationally regularly how are you going to get to that level, just training with England isn’t the same, and what if itoje happens to get an injury or lawes and you’ve give no fringe back rows game time, and there will be the complaint he didn’t have a back up plan.

[BFG]

I have no problem with Itoje at 6, and despite opinion I don't suppose anyone has really stood out massively above all others in the position!
If England are not going to play an out and out 7 and want to go for a big pack to keep things tight then I'd have no problem with Itoje at 7, if Robshaw can do it to the level required then I'm pretty sure Itoje could!
Hughes and Billy V would be my choice to experiment with at 6 and 8, as soon as the opportunity arises that is!
Similar to Kalamafoni and Mapapalangi at 6 and 8!

[wormus]

Which Tualagi is on the bench for Samoa, Alex?

I suppose there are a few wishing it was our Fred Tuilagi! but your Tualagi is the right letters but not necessarily in the right order ( this seems a common problem on this forum with our Tongan Tigers)
Taulagi is in fact Jamie-Jerry details - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie-Jerry_Taulagi

[LE18]

Sorry regarding spelling mistake, annoying to me as I hate to see all those errors made by others, so smack hand! Thanks for info!.
I have the book, Eats shoots leaves available to borrow if anyone wishes!

[Wes]

unless you play internationally regularly how are you going to get to that level

Well, surely that's the argument for Playing Itoje there? Add in the fact that Underhill is out due to concision and Curry is out due to (I think) an arm injury, who do you put in in his place? I suppose there's always The Hask