Simon Cohen's well chosen words ..............again

[strawclearer]

After twenty years of professional rugby the well funded Bath still do not have a proper ground, were they to be relegated it is debateable whether they would meet the criteria for promotion back to the Premiership. Saracens despite the forty odd million debt are actually developing a business and some good players, past criticism was justified but not now, as long as the money men don't disappear overnight they will be ok. Wasps with this strange bond funding that will mean repayment of about £35,000,000.00 in five years time approximately may be vulnerable but in the meantime they are playing good rugby. Tigers are being sensible whilst spending to the salary cap, fan growth may have been hit by three trophy less years coupled with the unexpected success of Leicester City but our seasonal average gate of more than 21,000 is far in excess of our rivals as is our annual turnover.

Saracens debt is increasing at about £4m pa, and there is still a question about who the heck is getting paid all that wage money (about £5m pa more than the current cap, so very well paid other employees). Nevertheless they are better off than Wasps who are subject to a huge gamble that is not covered by financial compensation i.e. if anything goes tits-up the whole facade coould crash. The stadium is 77% owned by the same owner as the team and subject to claim by its catering partner and Coventry Council. Given the nuclear arms race developing with the cap laxity it seems that we are OK but unable to compete fully, at least two (and three if Sale get more £££) will be fine as long as their sugar-daddies don't mind the losses, and that Wasps are by far the more vulnerable.

Talking of ownership - how many Premiership clubs own their own grounds? Tigers, Stains and Chiefs?

[SIBARITE]

After twenty years of professional rugby the well funded Bath still do not have a proper ground, were they to be relegated it is debateable whether they would meet the criteria for promotion back to the Premiership. Saracens despite the forty odd million debt are actually developing a business and some good players, past criticism was justified but not now, as long as the money men don't disappear overnight they will be ok. Wasps with this strange bond funding that will mean repayment of about £35,000,000.00 in five years time approximately may be vulnerable but in the meantime they are playing good rugby. Tigers are being sensible whilst spending to the salary cap, fan growth may have been hit by three trophy less years coupled with the unexpected success of Leicester City but our seasonal average gate of more than 21,000 is far in excess of our rivals as is our annual turnover.

Saracens debt is increasing at about £4m pa, and there is still a question about who the heck is getting paid all that wage money (about £5m pa more than the current cap, so very well paid other employees). Nevertheless they are better off than Wasps who are subject to a huge gamble that is not covered by financial compensation i.e. if anything goes tits-up the whole facade coould crash. The stadium is 77% owned by the same owner as the team and subject to claim by its catering partner and Coventry Council. Given the nuclear arms race developing with the cap laxity it seems that we are OK but unable to compete fully, at least two (and three if Sale get more £££) will be fine as long as their sugar-daddies don't mind the losses, and that Wasps are by far the more vulnerable.

Talking of ownership - how many Premiership clubs own their own grounds? Tigers, Stains and Chiefs?

Falcons.

[ourla]

Interesting comment on Gloucester's forum discussing buying a season ticket:

This is the first year in a long time I haven't had one. To be quite honest, a 4-5 hour round trip in the car to see the dross that has been served up over the last 5-10 years has sent me to breaking point. I just can't be bothered anymore.

[jgriffin]

Interesting comment on Gloucester's forum discussing buying a season ticket:

This is the first year in a long time I haven't had one. To be quite honest, a 4-5 hour round trip in the car to see the dross that has been served up over the last 5-10 years has sent me to breaking point. I just can't be bothered anymore.

Something is well awry down there - perhaps serially bad choice in DORs and coaches?

[Cagey Tiger]

Interesting comment on Gloucester's forum discussing buying a season ticket:

This is the first year in a long time I haven't had one. To be quite honest, a 4-5 hour round trip in the car to see the dross that has been served up over the last 5-10 years has sent me to breaking point. I just can't be bothered anymore.

Something is well awry down there - perhaps serially bad choice in DORs and coaches?

Can't be the players when they have got the likes of Saint Billy

[strawclearer]

That's your opinion. I think I have highlighted the meaning as clearly as I can.

At some point Saracens and Bath are in trouble. That could be rather imminent or if they're very lucky it could be fifty years. And when it happens, they will dip. As in not just out of the play off spots, but to face an existential crisis.

May I add to this that Wasps have a tradeable bond issue, annual return 6.5%, part based on a small line of companies and a big chunk of the real estate. This is even less viable than Saracens (for them a £60m deficit is pocket money for Rupert & Wray, but may not always be so) or Bath (Craig has realisable assets in the club structure although £5-10m losses are little to him). So for me, it is Wasps who are the more likely in the medium term to implode.

And now - "Toulon owner Mourad Boudjellal is mulling over to sell the club at the end of the season “to live another life”.

More here: http://www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/toul ... um=twitter

[tigercaspian]

That's really interesting Strawclearer. It seems the Sugar Daddy test may be coming sooner than later as Mr Boudjellal tends to do what he says ............

[JackFlashJonny]

I am very intrigued to see how Toulon without Mourad would fair...

Until we have financial fair play in Rugby it will just be an arms race I came to terms with that after Toulon bought three successive titles..

[MurphysLaw]

I am not sure if this is just lazy journalism and a re-hatching the same story, or whether Mr Cohen has been banging the drum yet again, but this is from today's Mercury...
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/playe ... story.html

If the latter, and he is out there repeating his message, could he be trying to pave the way for Tigers to sell more shares to another wealthy backer?

[tigercaspian]

Not sure if it's lazy or 'delayed' journalism?
The Merc story is v similar to the one from the BBC website that I copied to begin this thread.
It's also very similar to the Rugby Paper posting I put up here in early August - "Simon Cohen takes a different view......."

[BillieCraighead]

That's your opinion. I think I have highlighted the meaning as clearly as I can.

At some point Saracens and Bath are in trouble. That could be rather imminent or if they're very lucky it could be fifty years. And when it happens, they will dip. As in not just out of the play off spots, but to face an existential crisis.

May I add to this that Wasps have a tradeable bond issue, annual return 6.5%, part based on a small line of companies and a big chunk of the real estate. This is even less viable than Saracens (for them a £60m deficit is pocket money for Rupert & Wray, but may not always be so) or Bath (Craig has realisable assets in the club structure although £5-10m losses are little to him). So for me, it is Wasps who are the more likely in the medium term to implode.

And now - "Toulon owner Mourad Boudjellal is mulling over to sell the club at the end of the season “to live another life”.

More here: http://www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/toul ... um=twitter

Thanks for sharing! Great article!

[trendylfj]

I have to say that IMHO he is right. I think that the cap increase by 1/2 million next year is just about doable through a small increase on ticket prices and will not break the bank. It will inevitably however, stop other projects the club would have liked to do. The freeze for the next 3 years is also sensible and should make it a little easier for all concerned, BUT, unless it is rigorously enforced and clubs punished for breaches, some clubs will fall by the wayside and will not be able to compete.

[MikeR]

At the AGM on Nov 9 there is a motion regarding the Issue of new shares , so I guess that they are looking to find a rather wealthy benefactor .

[jgriffin]

At the AGM on Nov 9 there is a motion regarding the Issue of new shares , so I guess that they are looking to find a rather wealthy benefactor .